Re: RDF* vs RDF vs named graphs

Hi Ted,

On onsdag 2 december 2020 kl. 12:41:39 CET Ted Thibodeau Jr wrote:
> On Dec 1, 2020, at 07:33 PM, thomas lörtsch <tl@rat.io> wrote:
> > RDF* is about annotating statements that actually have been
> > stated.
> 
> Except that RDF* also ASSERTS those statements, as has been
> said many times... (I think I'm talking about RDF*-PG here,
> not RDF*-SA, nor "Classic" a/k/a "Original Recipe" a/k/a
> "from the first paper" RDF*, but I get all these mixed up
> rather a lot, so correction is welcome.)
> 
> { :Alice :said << :Bill :hates :Bob >> . }
> 
> -- does not merely assert that :Alice said something; it
> also automagically asserts --
> 
> { :Bill :hates :Bob . }

Not necessarily. Whether such embedded triples are considered to be asserted 
is still under discussion. This is essentially the decision between choosing 
SA mode (embedded triple are *not* asserted) and PG mode (embedded triples are 
asserted). The current draft spec captures SA mode.
 
> [...]
> It's bad enough that people have treated (and continue to do
> so!) treat *anything* asserted in RDF as universal and perpetual
> truths.
> 
> { :redLight :means :go . :greenLight :means :stop }
> 
> { :outdoors :temperature "36 degrees Fahrenheit"}
> 
> { :moon :madeOf :cheeseGreen . }
> 
> { :pigs :have :wings . }
> 
> *BAM*
> 
> World ends.  (OK, it just gets really messy for a little while.)

This observation is not specific to RDF* but it already is a "property" of 
RDF. RDF* is not meant to change RDF but to extend it.

Best regards,
Olaf


> Of course, the :redLight actually means :stop, and the :greenLight
> actually means :go, but the reverse has now been asserted (not
> merely uttered, because nothing is every merely uttered) in RDF,
> and RDF assertions are true facts, forever and ever, amen.
> 
> Oh, wait, *anything* can be expressed in RDF, *including* lies.
> 
> (This point gets glossed over every time I raise it. No matter
> what group hears/reads it, Truthtellers are not the only ones
> who can scribble Turtle, JSON-LD, RDF/XML, etc.)
> 
> Which is why we need a way to talk about individual triples as
> well as the graphs and/or documents in which those triples occur.
> 
> So that we can say that :Mary who originally noted that
> { << :Bill :hates :Bob >> :saidBy :Alice . } is a notorious
> gossip, treating the truthfulness of what she says as entirely
> optional. Fact is, :Alice *did* say that { :Bill :hates :Bob . }
> but she was joking, teasing :Bill who hasn't yet told :Bob that
> he has a crush on him. In other words, the *truth* is that
> { :Bill :likes :Bob . } (and { :Alice :likes :Bill , :Bob } ).
> 
> > There is one exception: the case when in SA mode an embedded
> > statement doesn’t reflect an actual occurrence. But this is
> > a corner case, a niche usecase - although definitely an
> > important one IMO.
> 
> I trust that the examples above reveal that this is NOT just
> "a corner case, a niche usecase", but a vital element of
> discourse, regardless of the arena hosting that discourse.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, by the way -- check out the results of a couple of Google
> searches.  Note that while something mentioning RDF* does
> appear on the first page of results, *most* of those hits,
> most especially including the giant sidebar callout, are about
> the "unrelated" _RDF (no-star)_, *not* about RDF*.
> 
>    https://www.google.com/search?q=RDF*
> 
>    https://www.google.com/search?q="RDF*"
> 
> 
> A better name for this project really is a *MUST* if it is to
> be carried through to a formal specification/recommendation,
> whether RFC or W3 TR or otherwise.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 
> --
> A: Yes.                          http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html
> 
> | Q: Are you sure?
> | 
> | | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
> | | 
> | | | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
> 
> Ted Thibodeau, Jr.           //               voice +1-781-273-0900 x32
> Senior Support & Evangelism  //        mailto:tthibodeau@openlinksw.com
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Received on Thursday, 3 December 2020 09:36:08 UTC