- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:28:09 -0400
- To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
- Cc: public-swd-wg@w3.org
The minutes of today's RDF-in-XHTML Task Force telecon are now
available as
http://www.w3.org/2009/04/30-rdfa-minutes.html
Thanks to Michael Hausenblas for scribing.
A text snapshot follows.
----
RDF in XHTML Task Force
30 Apr 2009
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Apr/0082.html
See also: [3]IRC log, previous: [4]2009-04-16
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/04/30-rdfa-irc
[4] http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html
Attendees
Present
Manu Sporny, Ralph Swick, Michael Hausenblas, Mark Birbeck
Regrets
Ben Adida, Steven Pemberton
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Michael
Contents
* Topics
1. Action Items
2. RDFa Updates (RDFa use cases, HTML5 micro-data thread on
WHATWG)
3. OWL2 Manchester Syntax eschewing CURIEs - need to
comment (Shane)
4. Framing the @profile discussion
* Summary of Action Items
____________________________________________________
Action Items
ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with
screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[11] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan.
[recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[CONTINUES]
[12] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
ACTION: Manu to update wiki page on current consensus for @prefix
[recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action15] [DONE]
[13] http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
<msporny>
[14]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Alternate-prefix-declaration-mechanism
[14] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Alternate-prefix-declaration-mechanism
ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[CONTINUES]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[CONTINUES]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded
in [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[CONTINUES]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML namespace
[recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[CONTINUES]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[CONTINUES]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
RDFa Updates (RDFa use cases, HTML5 micro-data thread on WHATWG)
Michael: Re RDFa validator
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009A
pr/0089.html
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Apr/0089.html
looking
[22]http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-rdfa-syntax-20081014/#rdfa-attribu
tes
[22] http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-rdfa-syntax-20081014/#rdfa-attributes
someone did href=[foaf:Person]
Michael: I wondered if we can write a validator that checks that
each of the attribute values is of a correct type; CURIE, URI, etc.
Mark: no, I don't think this is easy
... property="http:..." would be flagged as a CURIE but then later
you'd notice that there was no 'http' prefix defined
<mhausenblas> @datatype="[23]http://www.....org/xml/schema/string"
[23] http://www.....org/xml/schema/string
<mhausenblas> http: is the token
<inserted> scribenick: ralph
Mark: it's almost impossible to distinguish
Michael: but the URL schemes are registered
<mhausenblas> coming from
[24]http://www.iana.org/assignments/uri-schemes.html
[24] http://www.iana.org/assignments/uri-schemes.html
Michael: so perhaps one could note when registered schemes are
mis-used as prefixes
Mark: sure, a validator could be as strict as it wants
... but there CURIE spec does not disallow using 'http' as a prefix,
nor any other scheme type
... and I'd oppose such a restriction
Shane: I've seen people choose to define 'http' as a prefix; it's a
useful workaround
... I consider the ability to define http as a prefix is a feature
Manu: it's a nice trick but I don't think we should be recommending
it
... Michael's question is 'what advice should a validator give?'
... the validator could just note when a registered scheme is used
as a prefix, not disallow it
Shane: it's more important to flag cases where a CURIE prefix is
used but never defined
Michael: I could validate strings starting with http: against the
HTTP URI syntax spec
... a warning or hint -- not error -- might help for other
registered schemes, even though there may not be many that would
accidentally be used by a document author
Mark: if the validator wants to complain about registered schemes as
prefixes, then it should complain as soon as it sees xmlns:http=
Shane: it would be fine to say "This prefix has not been defined; it
looks like you're trying to use a URI. Here's what to do instead
..."
<msporny> [25]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-use-cases
[25] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-use-cases
msporny: we have some 25 UC now
<msporny>
[26]http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-April/0
19374.html
[26] http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-April/019374.html
msporny: people are discussing UC
markbirbeck: RDFa works already fine in HTML5
... we continue to support people that want to use it
... and as a matter of fact people are using it
msporny: there seems to be a shift from non-data mechanism awareness
to data awareness in HTML5
markbirbeck: it is clear that the authority is here, in the end
... and we're happy to give them advise *how* to implement it in
HTML5
... RDFa has solved the decentralised voc management issue
... and one should encourage HTML5 not to become incompatible
ShaneM: RDFa helps HTML5 to support the Semantic Web
<ShaneM> RDFa helps EVERYTHING support the semantic web
Michael: there are other routes as well, just to note, for example
[27]http://ld2sd.deri.org/lod-ng-tutorial/
[27] http://ld2sd.deri.org/lod-ng-tutorial/
ShaneM: next time when Ben and Steven are around we might continue
this
ACTION: Manu to talk with Ben about recent WHATWG use case activity.
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
see also [29]http://bitbucket.org/mhausenblas/lod-ng-tutorial/
[29] http://bitbucket.org/mhausenblas/lod-ng-tutorial/
OWL2 Manchester Syntax eschewing CURIEs - need to comment (Shane)
ShaneM: OWL WG decided not to use CURIEs
... rational was not clear, sad, though
<markbirbeck> One more 'rdfa update':
[30]http://webbackplane.com/mark-birbeck/blog/2009/04/23/more-rdfa-g
oodness-from-uk-government-web-sites
[30] http://webbackplane.com/mark-birbeck/blog/2009/04/23/more-rdfa-goodness-from-uk-government-web-sites
ShaneM: seems there was a misunderstanding with CURIEs (re XMLNS)
... but that will change
... they invented an abbreviated URI mechanism
<msporny> OWL2 Manchester Syntax document:
[31]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-owl2-manchester-syntax-20090421/
[31] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-owl2-manchester-syntax-20090421/
ShaneM: but not a CURIE, funny enough
... XHTML2 WG will send in a LC comment to object re this
<msporny> +1 for commenting on CURIEs
<mhausenblas>+1
ShaneM: will prepare a comment for XHTML2 WG, RDFa TF may join
... due on 12 May
<Ralph> [32]OWL-WG comment on CURIE [Sandro Hawke 2009-04-09]
[32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2009AprJun/0007.html
<Ralph> [33]Various issues with using CURIEs in OWL Bijan Parsia
2009-04-09]
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2009AprJun/0009.html
markbirbeck: RIF also refers to CURIEs
<Ralph> (the SPARQL REC is dated January 2008)
Michael: the new SPARQL Update might change this ;)
Framing the @profile discussion
<msporny>
[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009A
pr/0082.html
[34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Apr/0082.html
-> [35]http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Profiles
[35] http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Profiles
ShaneM: I think we need to define the requirements as well.
... we're trying to figure out a way to define CURIE rules external
to the document.
markbirbeck: I agree.
<ShaneM> where part of those rules include prefix mappings, and part
include defining additional reserved words
markbirbeck: Essentially, we want to get the same simplicity that
Microformats has.
... We might have a second use case - importing a collection of new
tokens.
ShaneM: but you could do it with another mechanism.
... That is a different problem than what we're currently
discussing.
markbirbeck: that is true, but where this is heading - how do we set
ourselves up for a future that we know is coming?
... we need to make sure the rules get placed into a separate graph.
ShaneM: As long as we're generating triples, we should be good.
markbirbeck: Are you saying that the external import mechanism is
more important?
ShaneM: I think they're different, not tied to one another.
ACTION: Manu to define a set of requirements and questions for
extending CURIEs in an external document on the RDFa wiki. [recorded
in [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
<Ralph> [37]SPARQL PN_LOCAL BNF (allowed chars in prefixed names)
[37] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#rPN_LOCAL
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Manu to define a set of requirements and questions for
extending CURIEs in an external document on the RDFa wiki. [recorded
in [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: Manu to talk with Ben about recent WHATWG use case
activity. [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa"
with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded
in [40]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases
for Ivan. [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff
[recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
[recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph or Steven fix the .htaccess for the XHTML
namespace [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[40] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[41] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
[42] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[43] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[44] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
[45] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
[46] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
[47] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
[DONE] ACTION: Manu to update wiki page on current consensus for
@prefix [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]
[End of minutes]
____________________________________________________
[48] http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action15
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [49]scribe.perl version 1.135
([50]CVS log)
$Date: 2009/04/30 16:26:12 $
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Received on Thursday, 30 April 2009 16:28:39 UTC