- From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:13:37 -0400
- To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <20070314201337.GP13846@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes [1]W3C RDF DAWG Weekly 13 Mar 2007 [2]Agenda See also: [3]IRC log Attendees Present AndyS EliasT LeeF Orri PatH SimonR Souri SteveH ericP iv_an_ru jeen Regrets Chair LeeF Scribe EricP Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]review action items 2. [6]unexpected/auto DISTINCT 3. [7]issues list purge * [8]Summary of Action Items _________________________________________________________________ <AndyS> SPARQL/Update :: a draft proposal for comment :: [9]http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/SPARQL-Update.html <LeeF> Agenda: [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/014 6.html -> [11]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes minutes from 2007-03-06 PROPOSED: approve minutes from 2007-03-06 as a true record of the last meeting APPROVED next meeting: 2007-03-20T14:30Z, scribe: EliasT review action items <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to add text to spec noting that ORDER BY comparisons may use extended implementations of < that operate on types beyond what's given in the operator table [DONE] [recorded in [12]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] action -1 <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests [recorded in [13]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action03] [CONTINUES] <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing application/sparql-query documents [recorded in [14]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES] <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put [recorded in [15]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES] unexpected/auto DISTINCT -> [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/014 7 Eric's summary of the DISTINCT issue LeeF: any epiphones? SimonR: partial DISTINCTness available via a clever OPTIONAL clause default keywords 1 ALL DISTINCT 2 ALL DISTINCT, LOOSE 3 LOOSE DISTINCT 4 LOOSE DISTINCT, ALL 5 DISTINCT Steve: -1 +.5 -1 +1 -1 Jeen: +1 0 0 0 -1 Orri: +1 0 0 0 -1 ericP: +.9 0 -.5 +1 -1 SimonR: 0 0 0 0 0 AndyS: +1 0 -1 -1 -1 patH: +1 +1 0 0 0 EliasT: +1 0 -1 -1 -1 LeeF: appears to be leaning towards 1 SteveH: implementing ALL easy (and done) ... but I lose a lot of performance ... may implement it, but add a LOOSE keyword <AndyS> Observation: LOOSE = ALL over an imaginary smaller dataset/graph. <SimonR> DISTINCT/ALL is sort of the difference between COUNT(PROJECT(X)) and PROJECT(COUNT(X)) -- maybe if projection wasn't tied to the SELECT clause we'd have a better way. (As always, too much change required to explore this....) Souri: 0 +1 0 0 0 <patH> Not always, I think, Andy. Because that smaller imaginary graph wouldnt give you all the real answers. <AndyS> Simon - agree - there an overly tight binding of project and expressions <SteveH> observation: noone disliked 2 explictly <AndyS> Example: 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3 ORDER BY, LIMIT 3 => 1,1,1 ; 1,2,2 ; 1,1,2 ; 1,2,3 ?? <patH> Can we do 2 but not REQUIRE that loose be supported? <SteveH> patH, an impl of LOOSE = ALL or DISTINCT is valid <AndyS> It would be the only optional feature in the spec. <AndyS> And we have no service descriptions :-) ericP: now +1 on 2 <LeeF> PROPOSE: SPARQL SELECT queries with no keyword following SELECT must return the precise cardinality of duplicate solutions specified by the algebra; SPARQL contains a @@ LOOSE keyword that allows duplicate solutions to be returned with cardinality of at least 1 and no greater than that specified by the algebra SteveH: query modification to access functionality is fine for me +1 AndyS: am reluctant introduce a new keyword for an seemingly arbitrarily selected optimization <LeeF> Option 1: by default, ALL; only keyword is DISTINCT ericP: we have a test with counting semantics already. AndyS, SteveH and I passed it but with different assumptions (1 vs 2) <LeeF> Option 2: by default, ALL; add a @@ LOOSE keyword EliasT: +1 0 patH: 0 +1 AndyS: +1 -1 <SimonR> SimonR: 0 0 ericP: 0 +1 orri: +1 0 jeen: +1 0 SteveH: -1 +1 Souri: 0 +1 <LeeF> 3 and 3 <AndyS> 3 and 4 on +1's :: each has a -1 LeeF: share andy's concearn, but can mark it "at risk" and let implementors define AndyS: i think that putting it in and marking it "at risk" is setting the default out of connearn for Steve-like implementations, i change to: -1 +1 <scribe> ACTION: ericP to draft text about a LOOSE keyword and run it by w3 folks to see if we're abusing the "at risk" mechanism [recorded in [17]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to seek guidance about at-risk features from the CG [recorded in [18]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] LeeF: if that's acceptable, I will propose 2, otherwise propose 1 ... KendallC says we should say what's informative vs. normative ... AndyS said that unless otherwise noted, numbered sections are normative and lettered appendicies are informative ... i think that 2 and 3 are informative I just labeled 2 and 3 informative <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to mark sections 2 and 3 informative, Appendices B and D normative in the text and table of contents and 1.1 document outline [recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] issues list purge <LeeF> [20]nested optionals LeeF: I believe that the algebra in the document addresses nested optionals <LeeF> PROPOSED that the current algebra of rq25 addresses [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#nestedOptionals AndyS: I think it does APPROVED <scribe> ACTION: LeeF to close nested optionals issue [recorded in [22]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] <LeeF> [23]bnodeRef LeeF: I believe that the current draft addresses this patH: yes <LeeF> PROPOSED that the current treatment of bnode labels in rq25 addresses [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#bnodeRef <AndyS> And we aren't proposing the first part (exposing the labels in results) APPROVED <scribe> ACTION: LeeF to close bnodeRef issue [recorded in [25]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] <scribe> ACTION: PatH to investigate closing the entailment issue [recorded in [26]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] <LeeF> [27]open world issues <AndyS> Example: "xyz"@en > "abc"@en -> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25#operatorExtensibili ty 11.3.1 Operator Extensibility <LeeF> """ <LeeF> Extended SPARQL implementations may support additional associations between operators and operator functions; this amounts to adding rows to the table above. <LeeF> """ <AndyS> Example: "xyz"@en = "abc"@EN <AndyS> Example: "abc"@en = "abc"@EN <SimonR> (Say, weren't language tags case-sensitive...?) "abc"@en = "abc"@EN <LeeF> I think RDF C&AS says they are case insensitive -> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25#func-RDFterm-equal 11.4.10 RDFterm-equal <LeeF> <LeeF> "Plain literals have a lexical form and optionally a language tag as defined by [RFC-3066], normalized to lowercase." <LeeF> "Note: The case normalization of language tags is part of the description of the abstract syntax, and consequently the abstract behaviour of RDF applications. It does not constrain an RDF implementation to actually normalize the case. Crucially, the result of comparing two language tags should not be sensitive to the case of the original input." <LeeF> from -> [30]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#section-Literal-Equality RDF C&AS { "abc"@en = "abc"@EN } => { "abc"@en = "abc"@en } <LeeF> """ <LeeF> 11.3.1 Operator Extensibility <LeeF> Extended SPARQL implementations may support additional associations between operators and operator functions; this amounts to adding rows to the table above. No additional operator support may yield a result that replaces any result other than a type error in an unextended implementation. The consequence of this rule is that extended SPARQL implementations will produce at least the same solutions as an unextended implementation, and may, for some queries, produce more <LeeF> """ [[ SPARQL language extensions may provide additional associations between operators and operator functions; this amounts to adding rows to the table above. No additional operator may yield a result that replaces any result other than a type error in the above table. The consequence of this rule is that SPARQL extensions will produce at least the same solutions as an unextended implementation, and may, for some queries, produce more solutions. ]] ""No additional operator may yield a result that replaces any result other than a type error in the above table."" <LeeF> PROPOSED that the text in 11.3.1 Operator Extensibility in rq25 addresses [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#openWorldValueTesting +1 APPROVED: AndyS and patH abstaining <scribe> ACTION: LeeF to close openWorldValueTesting issue [recorded in [32]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] LeeF: anyone intending to submit further reviews? patH: insofar as my action entails a review of section 12, yes Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: ericP to draft text about a LOOSE keyword and run it by w3 folks to see if we're abusing the "at risk" mechanism [recorded in [33]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [NEW] ACTION: ericP to mark sections 2 and 3 informative, Appendices B and D normative in the text and table of contents and 1.1 document outline [recorded in [34]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [NEW] ACTION: LeeF to close bnodeRef issue [recorded in [35]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [NEW] ACTION: LeeF to close nested optionals issue [recorded in [36]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [NEW] ACTION: LeeF to close openWorldValueTesting issue [recorded in [37]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [NEW] ACTION: LeeF to seek guidance about at-risk features from the CG [recorded in [38]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [NEW] ACTION: PatH to investigate closing the entailment issue [recorded in [39]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [PENDING] ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the existing tests [recorded in [40]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action03] [PENDING] ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not) POSTing application/sparql-query documents [recorded in [41]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action07] [PENDING] ACTION: LeeF to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put [recorded in [42]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action05] [DONE] ACTION: EricP to add text to spec noting that ORDER BY comparisons may use extended implementations of < that operate on types beyond what's given in the operator table [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc] [End of minutes] _________________________________________________________________ Minutes formatted by David Booth's [44]scribe.perl version 1.128 ([45]CVS log) $Date: 2007/03/14 20:10:55 $ References Visible links 1. http://www.w3.org/ 2. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0146.html 3. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 4. http://mouni.local/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes#agenda 5. http://mouni.local/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes#item01 6. http://mouni.local/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes#item02 7. http://mouni.local/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes#item03 8. http://mouni.local/2007/03/13-dawg-minutes#ActionSummary 9. http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/SPARQL-Update.html 10. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0146.html 11. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes 12. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 13. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action03 14. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action07 15. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action05 16. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007JanMar/0147 17. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 18. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 19. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 20. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#nestedOptionals 21. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#nestedOptionals 22. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 23. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#bnodeRef 24. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#bnodeRef 25. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 26. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 27. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#openWorldValueTesting 28. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25#operatorExtensibility 29. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25#func-RDFterm-equal 30. http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#section-Literal-Equality 31. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#openWorldValueTesting 32. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 33. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 34. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 35. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 36. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 37. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 38. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 39. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 40. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action03 41. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action07 42. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-dawg-minutes.html#action05 43. http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-dawg-irc 44. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm 45. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ Hidden links: 46. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/rq25#func-RDFterm-equal -- -eric office: +1.617.258.5741 NE43-344, MIT, Cambridge, MA 02144 USA cell: +1.857.222.5741 (eric@w3.org) Feel free to forward this message to any list for any purpose other than email address distribution.
Received on Wednesday, 14 March 2007 20:13:48 UTC