- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:32:19 -0500
- To: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>
- Cc: nathan@webr3.org, Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>, public-rdf-comments <public-rdf-comments@w3.org>
On Jul 19, 2012, at 9:05 AM, David Booth wrote: > On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 14:48 +0100, Nathan wrote: >> David Booth wrote: >>> On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 07:13 -0400, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote: >>>> * Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> [2012-07-18 22:24+0100] >>>>> David Booth wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 14:02 -0400, David Booth wrote: >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#resources-and-statements >>>>>>> says: "blank nodes do not denote specific resources". I don't >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> that is quite correct, since a blank node *does* denote a specific >>>>>>> resource. It just doesn't give that resource a name that is meaningful >>>>>>> outside the graph. I suggest rewording this as "blank nodes do not have >>>>>>> stable names that can be referenced outside of the graph". >>>>>> Andy explained off list that this was worded this way to avoid implying >>>>>> that a bnode implies a unique, identifiable individual, since a bnode is >>>>>> like an existential variable. My concern was that it should be clear >>>>>> that when someone writes (in the same graph): >>>>>> >>>>>> _:b1 a :Dog . >>>>>> _:b1 :name "Rex" . >>>>>> >>>>>> both statements (when applied) refer to the *same* (unspecified) dog, >>>>>> which has (for the purposes of this graph) been called _:b1, though >>>>>> there may be more than one dog that satisfies these statements. So I >>>>>> guess the wording here is tricky, and I'm unsure of how to make it >>>>>> clearer. >>>>>> >>>>>> How about "blank nodes do not indicate unique, identifiable resources"? >>>>>> Would that be better? I'm okay with leaving it as is if you think not. >>>>> "blank nodes indicate the existence of a thing, without providing a >>>>> name for that thing." >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> doesn't get involved in assumptions of uniqueness which exist at the >>>> graph-level (e.g. SPARQL) but not in RDF-Entailment or OWL. >>> >>> The only problem is that that phrasing says that the blank node does not >>> have a name, when _:b1 obviously *is* a name, it just isn't a *stable* >>> name. Maybe say ". . . without providing a *stable* name for that >>> thing"? >> >> _:b1 isn't a name, it's an artefact of the serialization, just as [] >> isn't a name, and the <>'s aren't part of the IRI. > > But in plain English _:b1 obviously *is* a name (even if it only exists > in the serialization). Why? It is a character string, but that does not make it a name. The English words "someone", "who", "which", etc.. are also not names, for much the same reason. > It is only not a name in the RDF abstract model, > because it doesn't exist there. But we are talking about RDF, right? The blank node *in RDF* is not a name and does not have any textual label. That string _:b1 is not part of RDF. (By the way, even if it were a name, it would not be the name *of the bnode*, any more than an IRI is a name of itself.) > So if we claim that it's not a name, > then we have to explain that we're using the word "name" in a special > way, and in general I think it's better to stick with plain English when > possible. Well, RDF is not colloquial English. One does need to accept that RDF is a formalism that does come with a certain amount of formality surrounding its terminology and use. Not a lot, by any means: compared, say, to JSON or HTML, RDF is almost childishly simple, but it is not completely without structure. In RDF, a "name" is either a URI reference (soon to be an IRI) or a literal. Blank nodes are not names and do not have any associated textual identifier. This is all stated very clearly and simply in the RDF specs. Get used to it. Pat > > > -- > David Booth, Ph.D. > http://dbooth.org/ > > Opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not necessarily > reflect those of his employer. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32502 (850)291 0667 mobile phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Thursday, 19 July 2012 16:32:52 UTC