[Bug 26958] On not precluding updates in XQuery 3.0

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26958

--- Comment #11 from C. M. Sperberg-McQueen <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com> ---
Michael Kay is quite right that the property of object identity is necessary to
distinguish between objects with different histories.  Conversely, we can talk
about objects having different histories if and only if they are different
objects.  Since the determination of identity or non-identity of things with
similar structures and values requires more care from language designers, and
more attention from language users, than the identity or non-identity of
immutable and/or history-less things, it is not surprising that the term
"identity" often pops up in discussions of such things; there is no need,
however, to depart from the normal meaning of the word "identity" in order to
discuss them.  In particular, there is no advantage in trying to restrict the
term "identity" to mutable objects or objects which can have different
histories; it only confuses things.

Jonathan Robie seems to have understood my reference to operators which
distinguish things based solely on their identities as a proposal for some
relatively specific abstract syntax; it was not.  We envisage having a language
in which some constructs have observable effects which depend on the identity
or non-identity of some things.  If we are not going to have such constructs,
then how will anyone tell whether or not the language has in-situ updates or
not?

JR suggests opening "a separate bug for wording related to identity" and
appears to want to regard comment 8 as not relevant to the bug.  But comment 8
is merely responding to a question asked towards the bottom of the original bug
report.

And (as I am getting a little tired of pointing out) it's very difficult to
have a useful discussion if some participants insist on using terms in special
meanings, without definitions, even after requests for clearer wording, or
definitions, have been made.

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Received on Tuesday, 7 October 2014 22:22:19 UTC