RE: Epub package for MiniApp?

Would you like to raise this with the Chinese Web IG (https://www.w3.org/2018/chinese-web-ig/), or do you need more time to think it through? I would need Zheng’s help, since I don’t speak Chinese.

Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Principal
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>

From: matt.garrish@gmail.com <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:41 AM
To: 'Leonard Rosenthol' <lrosenth@adobe.com>; 'Lars Wallin' <lars@colibrio.com>; 'Zheng Xu' <zhengxu7806@gmail.com>
Cc: 'W3C Publishing Community Group' <public-publishingcg@w3.org>; public-chinese-web@w3.org
Subject: RE: Epub package for MiniApp?

⛔
This is an external email.
> I believe that OCF started life at Adobe and was provided to the IDPF for use in EPUB and was also licensed back to Adobe, where we continue to use a variant of it called UCF

Ah, okay, I’ll defer to your knowledge of those particulars!

My understanding was mostly derived from moving 2.0.1 to 3.0 where the only mentions are of building on and being backward compatible with ODF.

Matt


From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com<mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>
Sent: March 9, 2021 9:58 AM
To: matt.garrish@gmail.com<mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>; 'Lars Wallin' <lars@colibrio.com<mailto:lars@colibrio.com>>; 'Zheng Xu' <zhengxu7806@gmail.com<mailto:zhengxu7806@gmail.com>>
Cc: 'W3C Publishing Community Group' <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>; public-chinese-web@w3.org<mailto:public-chinese-web@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Epub package for MiniApp?

My understanding of the history here is quite different, Matt.

I believe that OCF started life at Adobe and was provided to the IDPF for use in EPUB and was also licensed back to Adobe, where we continue to use a variant of it called UCF (Universal Container Format) to package up all sorts of things…

However, I do agree with you that OCF has been refocused to be EPUB specific and should remain such.  There are many other ZIP-based open standard package formats to choose from if someone needs one.

Leonard

From: "matt.garrish@gmail.com<mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>" <matt.garrish@gmail.com<mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 8:34 AM
To: 'Lars Wallin' <lars@colibrio.com<mailto:lars@colibrio.com>>, 'Zheng Xu' <zhengxu7806@gmail.com<mailto:zhengxu7806@gmail.com>>
Cc: 'W3C Publishing Community Group' <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>, "public-chinese-web@w3.org<mailto:public-chinese-web@w3.org>" <public-chinese-web@w3.org<mailto:public-chinese-web@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Epub package for MiniApp?
Resent-From: <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 8:33 AM

… someone will correct me if I'm wrong 😉

Okay, I’ll take the bait…

OCF was not a separate format that was adapted for EPUB, but an implementation for EPUB based on ODF’s packaging that was designed to also be usable for other formats (primarily as a future replacement for ODF).

The idea of it being a generic container was scrapped with 3.0, though, as it never panned out and it was a source of confusion about why other formats could be bundled together in an epub publication.

So as of the 3.0 revision, OCF requires a reference to an EPUB package document in the container file, and subsequently was tightened even further to only referencing package documents.

You could use OCF 2.0.1, of course, as it doesn’t require a specific content type, but even beside its age it might be confusingly publication-centric for an app spec. What they’ve defined looks not that dissimilar from LPF<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Flpf%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C975134e4ab9440e41dbe08d8e2ffff6f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637508936424635838%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=VQs5Y8XizkedcKg3ifEz7fDd%2F0PQuvENO%2B4l8NbOpmw%3D&reserved=0>, except that again is bound to publications.

Matt

From: Lars Wallin <lars@colibrio.com<mailto:lars@colibrio.com>>
Sent: March 7, 2021 3:47 AM
To: Zheng Xu <zhengxu7806@gmail.com<mailto:zhengxu7806@gmail.com>>
Cc: W3C Publishing Community Group <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>; public-chinese-web@w3.org<mailto:public-chinese-web@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Epub package for MiniApp?

Hi Zheng 👋
The EPUB OCF is really a straight implementation of the Open Container Format, which was designed an a generic container format. I think it was a pre-existing format, someone will correct me if I'm wrong 😉

Anyway, what I mean to say is that the OCF should work fine for many types of content.

I need to do some reading on the MiniApp concept 🙂

Ciao 👋

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021, 18:08 Zheng Xu, <zhengxu7806@gmail.com<mailto:zhengxu7806@gmail.com>> wrote:
Reading this spec
https://www.w3.org/TR/mini-app-white-paper/#constructor<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fmini-app-white-paper%2F%23constructor&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C975134e4ab9440e41dbe08d8e2ffff6f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637508936424645792%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=H%2FYYj6MyLoYeGRbKMu%2FlDy5fGD0XlF8S5t5rRsk2oDY%3D&reserved=0> I can not help
wondering if MiniApp could adopt Epub as container since we are both
zipped packages.


I filed an issue for now
https://github.com/w3c/mini-app-white-paper/issues/2<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fmini-app-white-paper%2Fissues%2F2&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C975134e4ab9440e41dbe08d8e2ffff6f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637508936424645792%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OdUiPDCsw%2BkhZQtUzDGDBaXPbOSvHoPAbh0jeMGpvnQ%3D&reserved=0> just for record.


Cheers,

--
Zheng Xu

W3C: https://www.w3.org/users/129468<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fusers%2F129468&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C975134e4ab9440e41dbe08d8e2ffff6f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637508936424655751%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dj4c94TvnR8of63Zho08zBLUw1SsKR60YN7c06gjqGs%3D&reserved=0>
Github: https://github.com/Jeffxz<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FJeffxz&data=04%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C975134e4ab9440e41dbe08d8e2ffff6f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637508936424864834%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SeNmV1Z18x5s2PPE7e4h2fp2LNzjbcvdQxI%2FZUcZjxs%3D&reserved=0>