R: Open-UI popups

Thanks for sharing.

Maybe a little Off Topic and definitely not significant for content producers.

Since we are talking about accessible UI components, on reading solutions side, I think it would be useful to do some experiments on highlighting text and adding user notes using screenreaders in a web environment.

It's one of the most difficult challenging of reading applications to make accessible...

Gregorio


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Gregorio Pellegrino
Chief Accessibility Officer

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Corso di Porta Romana 108, 20122 Milano
Tel. +39 02 89280822
www.fondazionelia.org<http://www.fondazionelia.org/> - www.libriitalianiaccessibili.org<http://www.libriitalianiaccessibili.org/>
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________________________________
Da: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
Inviato: mercoledì 14 luglio 2021 18:51
A: Teixeira, Mateus <mteixeira@wwnorton.com>
Cc: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>; Siegman, Tzviya <tsiegman@wiley.com>; W3C Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org>; public-publishingcg@w3.org <public-publishingcg@w3.org>
Oggetto: Re: Open-UI popups

+1 Mateus, which, to close the loop, is why I suggested to Tzviya that using a popup with actual linked @longdesc descriptions (files which could be appended at the "end" of a digital collection) might address that concern.

(That, or a mechanism riffing off of Dirk's example - there is a WordPress plugin which also echoes that treatment. See: https://www.joedolson.com/2014/03/update-wp-accessibility-longdesc/)

JF

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Teixeira, Mateus <mteixeira@wwnorton.com<mailto:mteixeira@wwnorton.com>> wrote:

Thank you for sharing this, John. Great point about the layout. Maybe the shifting behavior is not a pattern that’s out of place on Web content, where we’ve become used to “reflow” (hence why I overlooked it), but it does run up against usability constraints in systems that use e-ink and in paginated UIs that are common in ebook readers.



Mateus





From: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca<mailto:john@foliot.ca>>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 9:02 AM
To: "Teixeira, Mateus" <mteixeira@wwnorton.com<mailto:mteixeira@wwnorton.com>>
Cc: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca<mailto:john@foliot.ca>>, "Siegman, Tzviya" <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>>, W3C Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingbg@w3.org>>, "public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>" <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Open-UI popups



EXTERNAL EMAIL

Hi Mateus,



Yep, that seems to be the 'common' solution today (using <details>), but with it comes the fact that content on the 'page' moves (expands/contracts to expose the extended description) which has what some may consider negative implications on the layout.

Many years ago (when I was up to my neck fighting the @longdesc battle at HTML5), I had a colleague spin up a Proof of Concept demo that used jQuery and the longdesc attribute in a 'solution' that did not impact the layout of a page. See: http://blog.ginader.de/dev/jquery/longdesc/examples/webaim/index.php<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.ginader.de%2Fdev%2Fjquery%2Flongdesc%2Fexamples%2Fwebaim%2Findex.php&data=04%7C01%7C%7C99d456372a7f4388432608d946e0d849%7C2916ea148f244be68a2d3afc0c7a4892%7C0%7C0%7C637618753789821173%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Mpei9luXOdG1SZHVOXqNCJVw4ESgwJfXj0zkzf2S3UM%3D&reserved=0>



(There remain a few accessibility issues with this PoC, but the quick and dirty is to "click" on the "i in the circle" icon in the bottom right corner)



FWIW.



JF



On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 11:43 AM Teixeira, Mateus <mteixeira@wwnorton.com<mailto:mteixeira@wwnorton.com>> wrote:

One of my engineering colleagues here at Norton (Evan Yamanishi) worked with DIAGRAM on this exact problem at the Web4All code sprint—their solution did use <details>, but it would be an interesting idea to iterate on: https://github.com/diagram-codesprint/ExtendedImageDescriptions<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdiagram-codesprint%2FExtendedImageDescriptions&data=04%7C01%7C%7C99d456372a7f4388432608d946e0d849%7C2916ea148f244be68a2d3afc0c7a4892%7C0%7C0%7C637618753789831129%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dwi4ToE3NG8yCZYXTBwoIy2UUKQpE3IgyyZm%2FXRTHPc%3D&reserved=0>



Evan maintains Norton’s open-source design system, which might be another useful source of examples (in that it’s made by a publisher with ebook use cases): https://wwnorton.github.io/design-system/<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwnorton.github.io%2Fdesign-system%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C99d456372a7f4388432608d946e0d849%7C2916ea148f244be68a2d3afc0c7a4892%7C0%7C0%7C637618753789831129%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DcAHZZJ%2FeJQSYLZLJlgErfsvndnhIT8o51w2ZdC3Nq4%3D&reserved=0>



Will share this with him, as well.



Thanks,
Mateus





From: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca<mailto:john@foliot.ca>>
Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:20 AM
To: "Siegman, Tzviya" <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>>
Cc: W3C Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingbg@w3.org>>, "public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>" <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Open-UI popups
Resent-From: <public-publishingcg@w3.org<mailto:public-publishingcg@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 8:20 AM



EXTERNAL EMAIL

Hi Tzviya,



My initial reaction was "...for rendering extended image descriptions"? (aka "longdesc" et. al.) - click on a complex image and launch a popup with the longer text? Without any user-testing at this point, it *may* nonetheless be a better experience than what we currently see/have with <details>. (???)

Just a thought.



JF



On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:46 AM Siegman, Tzviya <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>> wrote:

Hi All,



Open UI is a bunch of implementors coming together to design some extensible components for the Web. Here is their work on popups [1], which in the greater web context often refers to things like popup ads. We should take a look and see if there is anything we can add or use.



[1] https://open-ui.org/components/popup.research<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fopen-ui.org%2Fcomponents%2Fpopup.research&data=04%7C01%7C%7C99d456372a7f4388432608d946e0d849%7C2916ea148f244be68a2d3afc0c7a4892%7C0%7C0%7C637618753789841087%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=hcrlk4Nv%2Fae9GNNCXNm7Pu6IYqtvCa1v1Ux8LnkByS0%3D&reserved=0>



Tzviya Siegman

Information Standards Principal

Wiley

201-748-6884

tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>






--

John Foliot | Senior Industry Specialist, Digital Accessibility

"I made this so long because I did not have time to make it shorter." - Pascal "links go places, buttons do things"




--

John Foliot | Senior Industry Specialist, Digital Accessibility

"I made this so long because I did not have time to make it shorter." - Pascal "links go places, buttons do things"


--
John Foliot | Senior Industry Specialist, Digital Accessibility

"I made this so long because I did not have time to make it shorter." - Pascal "links go places, buttons do things"
________________________________

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