Re: ISO/IEC standardization of EPUB: Procedure

2017-05-09 22:53 GMT+09:00 Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>:

> Hi Makoto and Bill,
>
> The proposal for accessibility spec version 1.1 is for continuing work in
> community group.
> Regarding ISO, it is not compulsory to wait for accessibility spec version
> 1.1, we can submit version 1.0 also.
>

But publishing both 1.0 and 1.1 as ISO/IEC TSs will require more work
than publishing 1.1 only.  Since 1.0 is an IDPF recommended spec
and is part of 3.1, I do not see strong reasons to publish it as an
ISO/IEC TS.  But 1.1 will have no official status at W3C, and thus
publishing 1.1 as an ISO/IEC TS is much more important.

Regards,
Makoto


> It depends on the which one is more practical. Version 1.1 will be
> incremental release, so it will not change fundamental approach of 1.0.
>
>
> With regards
> Avneesh
> *From:* MURATA Makoto
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 9, 2017 19:14
> *To:* W3C Publishing Business Group
> *Subject:* Re: ISO/IEC standardization of EPUB: Procedure
>
> Bill,
>
> 2017-05-09 22:18 GMT+09:00 Bill McCoy <bmccoy@w3.org>:
>
>> Makoto,
>>
>>
>>
>> If we can standardize only EPUB Accessibility as ISO TS more conveniently
>> this seems like a good option to consider.
>>
>>
>>
>> But can you explain why for a TS it is necessary or desirable that we
>> edit anything to use ISO terminology such as “SHALL”? For EPUB TS 30135 no
>> such edits were done, the IDPF specifications were used as-is with no
>> reformatting.
>>
>
> This is because of the fast-tracking procedure.  If you use that
> procedure,
> you do not have to follow the ISO/IEC directives for editorial issues.
>
>
>>
>>
>> As well, I’m not sure why publication as a WG note would necessarily be
>> required or desirable, if we were to standardize EPUB Accessibility 1.0.
>>
>
> As Ivan pointed out, accessibility 1.1  as a WG note is not possible,
> unless
> it is in the charter of the Publication WG.  The CG can only create
> a CG report.
>
>
>> As we can’t use the W3C PAS process (since not Recommendation) so we
>> would be relying on S. Korea (or another country) to submit on our behalf.
>> But, it could be existing IDPF EPUB Accessibility 1.0 that is submitted,
>> consistent with existing TS 30135.
>>
>
> Avneesh and Geroge are proposing EPUB Accessibility 1.1.  Not 1.0.
> I would like to hear from them about 1.0 vs. 1.1.
>
>
>> Unless the expectation is to standardize a future revision such as an
>> EPUB Accessibility 1.1, in that case I understand your recommendation.  But
>> since the standard procedure will take some time we should consider
>> whether, if we wait until EPUB Accessibility is revised, what will be the
>> total elapsed time until we have a TS.
>>
>
> If a New Work Item Proposal can  be made in this June and the CG can
> develop
> EPUB accessibility 1.1 in a timely manner, I do not see any reasons for
> such
> delay.  Less than a year is needed after the Draft Technical Spec is
> developed
> and sent out for a ballot.
>
> Regards,
> Makoto
>
>
>> It could end up, perhaps, desirable to start with EPUB Accessibility 1.0
>> even if by the time it’s a TS it will be revised, just as was the case with
>> EPUB TS. And after all EPUB Accessibility is designed to be a living
>> document – if we start the TS process with a 1.1 revision then who knows,
>> we may have a 1.2 before it is done. So if TS for EPUB Accessibility is a
>> good idea, I don’t’ see why not a good idea to start right now, without
>> waiting for revision or for any publication by W3C.
>>
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> --Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* eb2mmrt@gmail.com [mailto:eb2mmrt@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *MURATA
>> Makoto
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 9, 2017 4:33 AM
>> *To:* W3C Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org>
>> *Cc:* Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: ISO/IEC standardization of EPUB: Procedure
>>
>>
>>
>> Leonard,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-05-09 19:54 GMT+09:00 Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>:
>>
>> So how would you, Makoto, suggest moving the EPUB Accessibility spec into
>> ISO?
>>
>>
>>
>> Since it’s not a national standard anywhere, you can’t use Fast Track.
>> And not being a W3C Rec, it can’t be PAS.  So that leaves standard process,
>> AFAICT.  Yes?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>>
>>
>> So then someone would need to take on the work to reformat and revise the
>> document to ISO requirements and then take it through the process.  It’s
>> also then not clear if JTC1 SC34 is the right place to do that work, since
>> I don’t believe that any accessibility experts are in that group.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am willing to help in SC34/JWG7.   Basically, I am hoping that (1)
>> accessibility
>>
>> folks write a CG report and publish it at W3C, (2)  that CG report
>>
>> uses the ISO terminology (e.g., SHALL).  I can then do the rest of
>>
>> editorial and procedural works in JWG7.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not an A11Y expert, but I am sure that all accessibility folks in
>> Japan
>>
>> are willing to help me.  I am also fairly confident that Keio Advanced
>>
>> Publishing Lab and Japanese publishers support me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Makoto
>>
>>
>>
>> (I do support taking the doc to ISO – just trying to help with the
>> logistics)
>>
>>
>>
>> Leonard
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:34 PM
>> *To: *MURATA Makoto <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp>, W3C Publishing Business
>> Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: ISO/IEC standardization of EPUB: Procedure
>> *Resent-From: *<public-publishingbg@w3.org>
>> *Resent-Date: *Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:35 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to comment only on EPUB accessibility specification, as ISO
>> work for EPUB 3.1 is an issue to be discussed by the implementers.
>>
>> Our recommendation of moving EPUB accessibility specification forward in
>> CG was based onISO standardization because a document developed by CG is
>> not valued as much as the Rec Track deliverables. And accessibility
>> documents need to have higher weight due to various reasons like legal
>> mandates.
>>
>> ISO standardization will provide the required weight to EPUB
>> accessibility specifications.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> With regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Avneesh
>>
>> *From:* MURATA Makoto
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 9, 2017 15:45
>>
>> *To:* W3C Publishing Business Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: ISO/IEC standardization of EPUB: Procedure
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not support the revision of TS for 3.1.  I do not support
>>
>> the upgrade of TS to IS for 3.1 either.  But I am very interested
>>
>> in creating an ISO/IEC Technical Specification for EPUB
>>
>> Accessibility 1.1.  This work should not take much time but it
>>
>> provides real benefits, since EPUB Accessibility 1.1 at W3C
>>
>> is neither a recommendation nor a .note but is merely a
>>
>> CG report (thanks, Ivan).
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Makoto
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-05-09 9:47 GMT+09:00 Bill McCoy <bmccoy@w3.org>:
>>
>> Dear Makoto, thank you very much for the detailed information.
>>
>>
>> So for PBG folks, my take is the following
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. While it would be possible in principle to work with S. Korea to
>>    upgrade EPUB 3 from TS (Technical Specification) to IS (International
>>    Standard), and in the process could upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1, this would be
>>    considerable work and presents some obstacles since some of the dependent
>>    W3C specifications normatively referenced by EPUB 3.1 and earlier revisions
>>    are not themselves final Recommendations but only Candidates
>>    Recommendations or even Working Drafts. With everything else we have on our
>>    collective plate I can’t recommend that we pursue it at this time.
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. As Makoto points out it would be possible to work with S. Korea
>>    and SC34 to upgrade the current EPUB 3.0 TS to 3.1 but not through “fast
>>    track” but the normal procedure. I don’t know that this would significantly
>>    change the effort required for this , mainly to process incoming errata
>>    reports, even if the only result is that for “righteous” errata we commit
>>    to addressing in a future revision (as IDPF agreed to do for 3.0, and did
>>    so in 3.0.1) but it would certainly increase the risk that it would not be
>>    successful due to objections and would probably be at least somewhat more
>>    hassle overall. I think PBG members should consider, and opine about if not
>>    in tomorrow’s call then in the near future, how significant they see the
>>    benefits of such an upgrade in terms of for example supporting
>>    accessibility mandates specifying EPUB 3. I have not heard anything
>>    specific about this and perhaps it could be ‘good enough” for a11y mandates
>>    that need an ISO reference to specify TS 30135 with a note, as appropriate,
>>    recommending use of EPUB 3.1 as the current version. I don’t think we
>>    should necessarily forbid use of EPUB 3.0 particularly as the modular EPUB
>>    Accessibility specification element of EPUB 3.1 was designed to apply to
>>    EPUB 3.0 as well later (and hopefully future) revisions. But that is just
>>    my opinion. If PBG thinks it Is a high priority we could then discuss
>>    further with EPUB 3 CG and other stakeholders. But if PbG doesn’t think it
>>    is a high priority we probably should table it for now (which might mean
>>    forever as far as EPUB 3 family is concerned, although a future EPUB 4 that
>>    is a W3C Recommendation could use the W3C PAS process to become a full IS).
>>
>>
>>
>> --Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* eb2mmrt@gmail.com [mailto:eb2mmrt@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *MURATA
>> Makoto
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 7, 2017 8:31 PM
>> *To:* public-publishingbg@w3.org
>> *Subject:* ISO/IEC standardization of EPUB: Procedure
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> I plan to send a sequence of e-mails about this topic.  This first
>>
>> e-mail is about procedures.  The ISO/IEC JTC1 SC34 secretariat
>>
>> checked the content of this e-mail.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) ISO/IEC TS 30135
>>
>>
>>
>> The combination of EPUB 3.0 and FXL has been published as
>>
>> ISO/IEC Technical Specification 30135-1 to -7.  They were
>>
>> submitted by Korea as Draft Technical Specifications using
>>
>> the fast-track procedure.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) Fast-track procedure
>>
>>
>>
>> Member bodies (including Korea) are able to submit their national
>>
>> standards as draft international standards (DISs).  Fast-tracked DISs
>>
>> are voted only once for acceptance as International Standards.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is not impossible for Korea to adopt EPUB 3.0.1 or 3.1 as national
>>
>> standards and then submit it as a Draft International Standards.
>>
>>
>>
>> Member bodies were allowed to submit Draft Technical Specifications,
>>
>> but they are no longer allowed to so due to recent changes to ISO/IEC
>>
>> directives.  Thus, Korea cannot submit EPUB 3.0.1 or 3.1 as Draft
>>
>> Technical Specifications.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3) PAS procedure
>>
>>
>>
>> PAS submitters (including W3C) are able to submit recommendations as
>>
>> draft international standards (DISs).  PAS-submitted DISs are voted
>>
>> only once for acceptance as International Standards.  No existing
>>
>> versions of EPUB are W3C recommendations.  Thus, W3C is
>>
>> not allowed to submit EPUB3 as draft international standards.
>>
>>
>>
>> There has been no PAS process for draft technical specifications.
>>
>> Thus, W3C is not allowed to submit EPUB3 as draft technical
>>
>> specifications.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4) Normal procedure
>>
>>
>>
>> It is possible to use the normal process for revising ISO/IEC 30135 in
>>
>> sync with EPUB 3.0.1 or 3.1.  ODF 1.1 (OASIS standard) was standardized
>>
>> in ISO/IEC SC34/WG6 in this manner.  Associating Schemas with XML
>>
>> documents 1.0 (W3C Working Group Note) was also standardized in
>>
>> ISO/IEC SC34/WG1 in this manner.  Although the normal procedure
>>
>> requires more than one ballot, it is not so slow as long as no
>>
>> oppositions are supported by other member bodies.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/2011/NOTE-xml-model-20110811/
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2F2011%2FNOTE-xml-model-20110811%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfd3605a9a378432ab81808d496c72c36%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636299229567114489&sdata=Lx1JRAxtMZ8BujuKcwnnV2P0kfLua5xcTbe4GmUwC3U%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> What is more, SC34 has already made a resolution for using the normal
>>
>> procedure for revising ISO/IEC TS 30135.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Resolution 9: Revision of ISO/IEC TS 30135: 2014, Information
>> technology -- Digital
>>
>>   publishing -- EPUB3 (all parts)
>>
>>
>>
>>   SC 34 creates sub-projects for a revision of TS 30135 (all parts) and
>>
>>   assigns them to JWG 7 for development. The revision is to address the
>>
>>   latest EPUB3 revision (3.0.1), in which parts 2 and 7 are merged. SC
>>
>>   34 instructs its Secretariat to take the necessary action to obtain
>>
>>   JTC 1 endorsement in accordance with JTC 1 Supplement 2.1.5.4.
>>
>>
>>
>> 5) Superseding
>>
>>
>>
>> No matter which process is used for standardizing EPUB 3.0.1 or 3.1 in
>>
>> ISO/IEC, the current version, ISO/IEC 30135:2014 (EPUB 3.0 and FXL),
>>
>> will disappear from the ISO/IEC catalog.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is not completely impossible to have more than one editions in the
>>
>> ISO/IEC catalog.  In fact, ODF 1.0 (including 1.1) and 1.2 are both
>>
>> in the catalog as ISO/IEC 26300:2006 and ISO/IEC 26300:2015.  But
>>
>> this is a special case.  In the case of OOXML (ISO/IEC 29500), only
>>
>> the latest edition is in the catalog.  Since EPUB 3.0 is an ISO/IEC
>>
>> Technical Specification rather than an International Standard, I think
>>
>> that there are slim chances.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> ISO/IEC JTC1/SC34/WG4 Convenor
>>
>> Head of Delegation of the Japanese SC34 mirror
>> Makoto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Praying for the victims of the Japan Tohoku earthquake
>>
>> Makoto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Praying for the victims of the Japan Tohoku earthquake
>>
>> Makoto
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Praying for the victims of the Japan Tohoku earthquake
>
> Makoto
>



-- 

Praying for the victims of the Japan Tohoku earthquake

Makoto

Received on Tuesday, 9 May 2017 13:59:55 UTC