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RE: Comics/Manga/FXL workshop - narrow scope to "sequential art"?

From: Bill McCoy <bmccoy@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2018 10:11:38 -1000
To: "'AUDRAIN LUC'" <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, "'Ivan Herman'" <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: "'Daihei Shiohama'" <dshiohama@inbeatween.com>, "'Jun-ichi Yoshii'" <j-yoshii@kodansha.co.jp>, "'Naomi Yoshizawa'" <naomi@w3.org>, "'Wendy Seltzer'" <wseltzer@w3.org>, "'W3C Team Digital Publishing'" <team-dig-publishing@w3.org>, "'Karen L Myers'" <karen@w3.org>, "'Alan Bird'" <abird@w3.org>, "'W3C Publishing Steering Committee'" <public-publishing-sc@w3.org>
Message-ID: <058c01d3cd1a$50b85da0$f22918e0$@w3.org>
Thanks Luc and Ivan. I +1 Ivan’s title refinement as well although I would
prefer “Digital Publication of” to “Digital Publications of…”: the plural in
the latter seems odd to my eyes since it makes it a noun but yet I think we
are talking about the process as well as the content itself.

Re: Web Publication vs. Digital Publication – since EPUB 3 refinement is
necessarily in scope I think it might be confusing, as well as premature, to
use the term “Web Publication” (and even more so “Web Publications”). So I
suggest we stick with Ivan’s suggestion there.


I am not seeing any disagreement with the more restrictive scope. So I will
soon push some fodder accordingly.






From: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr> 
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 2:03 AM
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>; Bill McCoy <bmccoy@w3.org>
Cc: Daihei Shiohama <dshiohama@inbeatween.com>; Jun-ichi Yoshii
<j-yoshii@kodansha.co.jp>; Naomi Yoshizawa <naomi@w3.org>; Wendy Seltzer
<wseltzer@w3.org>; W3C Team Digital Publishing <team-dig-publishing@w3.org>;
Karen L Myers <karen@w3.org>; Alan Bird <abird@w3.org>; W3C Publishing
Steering Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Comics/Manga/FXL workshop - narrow scope to "sequential art"?




I do not think that the French/Belgian term of Bandes dessinées is covered
by « Comics, Mangas ».


I agree with a more precise title, more restrictive on the core subject.

And I do support Ivans’s proposal of "Digital Publications of Sequential Art
(Comics, Manga, Bandes Dessinées) ».


Even more in phase with the Publishing@W3C, perhaps : « Web Publication of
Sequential Art (Comics, Manga, Bandes Dessinées) », but it may be premature.






De : Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org> >
Date : jeudi 5 avril 2018 à 08:56
À : Bill McCoy <bmccoy@w3.org <mailto:bmccoy@w3.org> >
Cc : Daihei Shiohama <dshiohama@inbeatween.com
<mailto:dshiohama@inbeatween.com> >, Jun-ichi Yoshii
<j-yoshii@kodansha.co.jp <mailto:j-yoshii@kodansha.co.jp> >, Naomi Yoshizawa
<naomi@w3.org <mailto:naomi@w3.org> >, Wendy Seltzer <wseltzer@w3.org
<mailto:wseltzer@w3.org> >, W3C Team Digital Publishing
<team-dig-publishing@w3.org <mailto:team-dig-publishing@w3.org> >, Karen L
Myers <karen@w3.org <mailto:karen@w3.org> >, Alan Bird <abird@w3.org
<mailto:abird@w3.org> >, W3C Publishing Steering Committee
<public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org> >
Objet : Re: Comics/Manga/FXL workshop - narrow scope to "sequential art"?
Renvoyer - De : <public-publishing-sc@w3.org
<mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org> >
Renvoyer - Date : Thu, 5 Apr 2018 06:56:50 +0000



On 3 Apr 2018, at 22:31, Bill McCoy <bmccoy@w3.org <mailto:bmccoy@w3.org> >




I’m working (well, I’m on vacation in Hawaii this week so not able to work
very hard, but I would still like to get a green light decision onto next
week’s W3M agenda) to add some flesh to Ivan’s skeleton [1]  for the
proposed September workshop in Tokyo, particularly the call for
participation . I made one push to the github repo to adjust the proposed
name per discussion in last week’s strat call to more prominently feature
Manga and Comics in the title, which now says “W3C Workshop on Manga, Comics
and Fixed-Layout Publications”. I have agenda input from Daihei and
Yoshii-san and believed I had enough to make a rough first cut at purpose,
scope, possible topics, etc. to motivate further refinements, but have
gotten stuck on one point.


I think it’s clear that we don’t plan to cover issues relating to PDF and
more generally that we don’t plan to cover, at least not in depth, issues
that are not applicable to Comics/Manga but only to things like digital
versions of coffee table books, children’s books, cookbooks and so on – much
less enterprise documents. At least, it would be my assumption that with a 1
or 2 day workshop and based on need to focus on the many issues applicable
to Comics/Manga and the Web Platform, that we shouldn’t try to make it that
broad. Particularly since Manga is 50% of Japan’s publishing industry, and
the needs of comics/manga are somewhat distinct in the digital realm.


While I could clarify this in scope section, and have started drafting
accordingly, I am now thinking that my suggested title could be too broad
since “Fixed Layout Publications” does encompass all those other types of
content from children’s books to enterprise-generated PDFs. 



When IDPF did a comics/manga workshop 4 years ago in Paris ]1] we used a
more focused title “IDPF Worskhop on Sequential Art (Comics, Manga, Bandes
dessinées, and new form)”. Perhaps we could take some inspiration from this
and title this proposed workshop “W3C Workshop on Digital Comics, Manga, and
Sequential Art”?? 


Looking at the IDPF workshop, my question is also whether the French/Belgian
term of Bandes dessinées is covered by "Comics, Mangas". I simply do not
know. In a way, maybe the former IDPF CEO will agree reusing an IDPF title,
and call the Workshop "Sequential Art Publications (Comics, Manga, Bandes
Dessinées)". (I am not sure what "and new form" included in Paris.)


I mean, at some level this is a semantics nitpick  – “Goodnight Moon” could
be considered sequential art too – but I do think we should be clear about
whether the bull’s-eye of the scope includes all forms of digital fixed
layout content or not as well as on whether the general topic of “beyond
PDF” for publications is squarely in scope. Perhaps others are more
optimistic than me that we can cover these areas in Tokyo, if so please
advise. I am happy to shape my draft fodder according to whatever folks
think best.


I would be wary of casting too large in this case. So I am o.k. with being
more restrictive.


One more issue, though. Are we are looking at publication of these
sequential art on the Web, too, not necessarily part of a closed EPUB
publication? (I was not part of your earlier discussions in Tokyo.) Are we
looking at what techniques are missing from OWP? (Which do have an effect on
what can be done in EPUB, too.) Because if yes, we may want to emphasize
that in the Workshop title as well, ie, something like:


 "Digital Publications of Sequential Art (Comics, Manga, Bandes Dessinées)"


although it does become a mouthful…


Just my 2 cents











[1]  <https://www.w3.org/publishing/events/tokyo18-workshop/>

[2]  <http://idpf.org/idpf-comics-manga-workshop-paris>


Ivan Herman, W3C 
Publishing@W3C Technical Lead

Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153

ORCID ID: https://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704

Received on Thursday, 5 April 2018 20:11:57 UTC

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