Re: Running headers/footers / new version of DPUB-ARIA?

In PDF, we treat page numbers as a separate thing from the header/trailer (and yes, you can have the former inside the latter).  We also have a “class” for bates numbers and a few other vertical-specific elements.   We have found that it is important to be able to unique identify them.

Headers and Footers aren’t necessary tied to pages – you could have a section with a header or footer as well, so perhaps just `doc-header` and `doc-footer` (and `doc-pagenum`).

Leonard

From: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 8:55 AM
To: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>
Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, "kerscher@montana.com" <kerscher@montana.com>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org>, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Subject: Re: Running headers/footers / new version of DPUB-ARIA?

Sounds good.
- How about doc-pageheader and doc-pagefooter?
- Possible definition: repeated section of text that appears at the top/bottom of pages in a document, potentially containing a title, page number or other information
- Should the page number get its own role, e.g. doc-pagenum? Should it exist within the doc-pageheader/doc-page-footer?
- Should the new roles inherit from contentinfo?

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:05 AM White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote:
If there’s already a mapping to accessibility APIs via PDF readers, then we could use it here too.

Screen readers could offer a command to query this information, if desired, just as there is for window titles.

From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com<mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 21:45
To: George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>, 'Aaron Leventhal' <aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>" <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Cc: 'Joanmarie Diggs' <jdiggs@igalia.com<mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>
Subject: Re: Running headers/footers / new version of DPUB-ARIA?
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 21:45

FWIW: Headers & Footers can be properly identified in PDFs and exposed accordingly to AT (so that they aren’t read multiple times).  In fact, PDF/UA (the PDF standard for Universal Accessibility) calls out their usage.

Leonard

From: "kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>" <kerscher@montana.com<mailto:kerscher@montana.com>>
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 4:35 PM
To: 'Aaron Leventhal' <aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>" <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Cc: 'Joanmarie Diggs' <jdiggs@igalia.com<mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>
Subject: RE: Running headers/footers / new version of DPUB-ARIA?
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 4:35 PM

Hello,

This is just my opinion. Running headers and footers are very intrusive while reading. I encounter these many times in PDF documents. The same information is constantly repeated. Fortunately, I do not encounter this while reading EPUB. I can understand that it might be useful for the Reading System to provide “where am I?” information as one is reading, but including this over-and-over again in the content would be horrible.
I am reading using Assistive Technology (AT) and the TTS reads to me. I imagine this would also be painful if a person was using the read aloud function in Reading Systems.

I could see the same problem in an audio book. Nobody would want to hear those running heads and footers in the audio book.

My $.02

Best
George

Best
George


From: Aaron Leventhal <aleventhal@google.com<mailto:aleventhal@google.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:37 AM
To: public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Cc: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com<mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>>
Subject: Running headers/footers / new version of DPUB-ARIA?

Hi all,

I'm wondering about the plans for doing DPUB-ARIA 2.0 as described under the deliverables:
https://www.w3.org/2017/04/publ-wg-charter/#deliverables<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F04%2Fpubl-wg-charter%2F%23deliverables&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Cd7e399d9ff2445ab927008d72636cf68%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637019889163743765&sdata=2Bh%2F82NDIOd%2BB7GWIKWfCdrNqB3TGuOmNkF9NTq9hUg%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks for what DPUB-ARIA provides so far. Google Docs is going to be using it  to expose semantics for online word processing. We're collaborating with AT vendors and other developers of online word processors as well.

One gap is running headers and footers: https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria/issues/10<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpub-aria%2Fissues%2F10&data=02%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Cd7e399d9ff2445ab927008d72636cf68%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637019889163743765&sdata=sbuBXEdpBcj44MiULONhW1rbJwGLZBs6yvJdpv%2FnpGY%3D&reserved=0> -- hence the reason for my email and status check :)

Thanks for any info,
Aaron


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