Re: [personalization] Task Force - first call minutes

And this is where we get into the classic “author control” vs. “user control” argument…and so I would think that this is another of those areas we should leave vague in the WP work (and perhaps tighten up with EPUB).

Just to address your points – I think it is entirely about type of content being presented and just how important the font and size choices are to the author.  For a fiction-type book, it probably doesn’t matter in any case (as we can see from Kindle, iBooks, etc.).  But for a brochure or a rich book (eg. cook book or travel guide), the choices are more important as they go to the style & branding of the work.

Leonard

From: Charles LaPierre <charlesl@benetech.org>
Date: Friday, July 28, 2017 at 9:28 AM
To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
Cc: "Teixeira, Mateus" <mteixeira@wwnorton.com>, "public-publ-wg@w3.org" <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [personalization] Task Force - first call minutes

Hello Leonard,
I agree with a default presentation from the author that can be overridden by a user’s personalization choice.

However, I disagree with your statement

I also believe that some aspects of the content *must* always be preserved by personalization – for example, relative font “categories” and sizes.  For example, if the author picked a sans-serif font for a particular piece of text, then while a user may prefer a different sans-serif font, they can’t replace it with a serif font.  And if headings are 1.5% of body text, that relationship must remain even if the actual sizes increase/decrease.


Why should the author force me to keep their *default* san-serif font which I find distracting with all the extra flourishes and wish to have the entire publication use a serif font like Times New Roman.  The only place which this may make sense is mono-spaced fonts where the spacing was done specifically in the case of ascii art for example for poetry.

We may want to put in some tagging that the author strongly recommends this body of text stay with this specific font especially if it was some passage from an ancient manuscript potentially in another language.

I also disagree with your notion of size keeping them all proportional, in general I agree with this but I think users should be able to override this.  I may want all Headings at 28 point font and all regular text as 18 point.  Also I have seen and truly despise when the headers were say 40 point font and the regular text is 14 point font then trying to increase the font size of the regular text and then having the headers blow up in size wrapping down the page and you have to try to read vertically to understand what the headers are saying.  Then you switch to a cell phone and try to read this and well all bets are off now and good luck as you reach character by character.  Low vision users such as myself are constantly increasing and decreasing font size, it would be nice to have a preset set of fonts and font sizes that could apply to H1, H2, H3, and normal text etc.

Thanks
EOM

Charles LaPierre
Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org<mailto:charlesl@benetech.org>
Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
Skype: charles_lapierre
Phone: 650-600-3301


On Jul 28, 2017, at 4:10 AM, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com<mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>> wrote:

Sorry I missed the call – great stuff and thanks for the minutes.  I am really glad to see us moving towards heavy semantics for content from which presentation can be derived!

I do want to comment on one item in there:
> some people in the working group think that reading systems should not exist and that everything should be included inside the publication.
>
I am one of “those people”.

I believe that an author should be able to have control over the *default* presentation of their content.  Meaning that the way that the user should initially presented with the content is one that behaves accordingly to the author’s wishes.  *BUT* if that isn’t a presentation that works (eg. accessibility or device-size considerations), then a user should then be able to apply their own personalizations/choices as needed.

I also believe that some aspects of the content *must* always be preserved by personalization – for example, relative font “categories” and sizes.  For example, if the author picked a sans-serif font for a particular piece of text, then while a user may prefer a different sans-serif font, they can’t replace it with a serif font.  And if headings are 1.5% of body text, that relationship must remain even if the actual sizes increase/decrease.

Leonard

From: "Teixeira, Mateus" <mteixeira@wwnorton.com<mailto:mteixeira@wwnorton.com>>
Date: Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:47 AM
To: "public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>" <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Subject: [personalization] Task Force - first call minutes
Resent-From: <public-publ-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-publ-wg@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:46 AM

Thanks, all, for joining our first conversation about the personalization of web publications. Minutes are here: https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-pwg-ptf-minutes.html<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F07%2F27-pwg-ptf-minutes.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0e56569d06346b2df2108d4d4fe59b0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636367636271839909&sdata=Nus8VPIDJtItLxXr3rojfe8H2kJYmasFK1XMHIzSfH4%3D&reserved=0>

It sounds like we have a rather clear direction on how to approach this issue. As I said in the call, I will go through our discussion and pull out threads we can delve into more deeply in GitHub. As we discuss, I will formulate a skeleton draft that we can collaborate on.

Best,
Mateus

---

Mateus Manço Teixeira
Co-Director, The Norton Lab
Manager, Ebook Production

W. W. Norton & Company
Independent Publishers Since 1923
500 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10110
wwnorton.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwwnorton.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd8176c580b9a4cad57d508d4d5bc80e5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636368453121755465&sdata=ZWNeZfJcO3%2B5VfA%2FS32XPVLKVxfFfIWMNM1nfelx0Rw%3D&reserved=0>


From: mteixeira@wwnorton.com<mailto:mteixeira@wwnorton.com>
When: 10:00 AM - 11:00 AM July 27, 2017
Subject: W3C PWG Personalization TF
Location: WebEx - See info in invitation body.


Hi all,

Tomorrow is the inaugural call of the Personalization Task Force. Our role is to define personalization in a Web Publication context, and to identify restrictions, use cases, and overlaps between our work and other parts of the specification (and between our work and existing standards). Especially as a newbie, I am looking forward to working with you and gathering your feedback and guidance.


Agenda


  1.  What do we mean by "personalization" and what use cases do we need to consider? [1]

     *   User's customization of the user agent and publication
     *   Author/publisher's customization of the publication and prescriptions to the user agent
     *   (Other avenues for personalization?)
     *   Restrictions to personalization

  1.  Difference between content authoring and user choices
  2.  Where does our work overlap with other WP task forces?
  3.  Where do we intersect with other W3C work?

     *   Assign/forcefully-but-nicely volunteer people for scouting and outreach.


Logistics

IRC: #pwg (barring any objections)

WebEx: W3C PWG Personalization TF

Thursday, July 27, 2017

10:00 am  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)  |  1 hr


Meeting number (access code): 634 347 893


Meeting password: NxVpjSx6


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[1] Laurent shared the following existing views on personalization as it is defined in most reading systems today:

- currently, personalization generally includes
* display variants for collections of books (list/mosaic, sort order)
* night mode
* theme
* font size, font, spacing, margin size, text justification,
* appearance of page numbers (or other way of locating the user in the book)
* background and text color
* page animation (turn ...)
* management of bookmarks and annotations

- we will study in the future additional a11y features like
* activation of specific key controls on a desktop app
* activation of vocal controls on a desktop app
* activation of specific displays for cognitive impaired people (incl. dyslexic people), using enriched content

Note that Jiminy Panoz is currently working for EDRLab on a Readium CSS project, which tackles the difficult subject of the differentiation between what the author's CSS will propose and what the user choices will impose, taking into account what the reading app CSS will require (mostly pagination). More on https://github.com/readium/readium-css/issues<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Freadium%2Freadium-css%2Fissues&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0e56569d06346b2df2108d4d4fe59b0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636367636271839909&sdata=7ZRTyg594nevGiWhoDYsBv2CFtRuLvBQN0CRAOihruY%3D&reserved=0>.