[Admin] Re: Why a default reading order?

Fabrizio,

it is indeed preferable if your comments were registered as comments on github issues (or, if applicable, as completely new issues), rather than separate discussions on the mailing list.

Thanks!

Ivan


> On 7 Aug 2017, at 11:02, Fabrizio Venerandi <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the answer and link to the thread I missed.
> I’ll read all the discussion and the github issue.
> 
> 
> Fabrizio
> 
> 
>> Il giorno 07 ago 2017, alle ore 10:30, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr> ha scritto:
>> 
>> Copying the W3C Publishing Working Group.
>> 
>> I encourage you to read the mail thread « definition of Web Publication »
>> where this has been discussed.
>> There is also a github issue open by Dave Cramer [1] where you could
>> contribute.
>> 
>> Luc
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/14
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le 07/08/2017 09:47, « Fabrizio Venerandi »
>> <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com> a écrit :
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I think “no default” could be the better option. What is the “default
>>> order” in Wikipedia, for example?
>>> The problems with having an "order by default” are imho two:
>>> 
>>> a) with a default order "by default” (sorry) the digital publication is
>>> still designed as a “book”. So we will have more “digitalised books”
>>> instead “digital publications”.
>>> 
>>> b) the bigger one: I fear the reader’s support for non linear digital
>>> publications will still be a mess. I’m not only talking about the
>>> problems for have “closed islands” of information connected only by link,
>>> but also of the inappropriate technologies about rendering. For example:
>>> Ibooks, when a ebook is opened, is pre-paging all the ebook in
>>> background. This is cool for a “digitalised book”, but is inappropiate
>>> for a digital publications. Why paginate “pages” I’ll never reach? And
>>> what if, in "first page", I touch a link that brings me in the "last
>>> page" of the DP? The "default order” forces Ibooks to paginate the ebook
>>> following it, "page after page" and not the order the reader will use
>>> moving inside the publication. The concept of “first page” or “last page”
>>> in a digital publication is quite silly.
>>> 
>>> Fabrizio
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Il giorno 07 ago 2017, alle ore 09:22, AUDRAIN LUC
>>>> <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr> ha scritto:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> When you say « a digital publication that allow *multiple* reading order
>>>> by default », which one is he default?
>>>> Or do you mean there is no default?
>>>> 
>>>> The possibly of multiple reading order is an interesting use case.
>>>> I don¹t see that having one by default hinder that possibility.
>>>> 
>>>> Luc
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Le 07/08/2017 08:56, « Fabrizio Venerandi »
>>>> <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com> a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I¹d like to share my perplexity about the recent definition about the
>>>>> reading order in digital publication:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ³The default reading order is the static progression through the
>>>>> primary
>>>>> resources defined in the manifest by the creator of a Web Publication.
>>>>> A
>>>>> user might follow alternative pathways through the content, but in the
>>>>> absence of such interaction the default reading order defines the
>>>>> expected progression from one primary resource to the next.²
>>>>> 
>>>>> Our publisher house is creating ebooks in ePub from 2010, and one of
>>>>> big
>>>>> limit in creating native digital ebook is the ³book² notion of ³default
>>>>> reading order². There is not a ³default reading order² in a website,
>>>>> but
>>>>> I need to allow one in a digital publication. This prevents me to build
>>>>> an ebook with several different "reading order² without the risk the
>>>>> reader can fall from one to another one. I can not set a rule for a
>>>>> chapter for ³don't go in another chapter when the user turn the last
>>>>> page². So, I can use the atomic complexity of a website for a digital
>>>>> publication, but I have to pray the user will use my hyperlink and does
>>>>> not turn the pages, because I have to ³flat down² my atomic resource
>>>>> to a
>>>>> linear book. Also, the concept of ³default reading order² caused a lot
>>>>> a
>>>>> misunderstanding for how handle the ³non default² chapters in ebook.
>>>>> The
>>>>> Œlinear-no¹ support in ePub and EPUB3 is a mess: someone handles it as
>>>>> a
>>>>> pop-up, someone like a normal chapter (but does not remember the page I
>>>>> was reading if I close the ebook), someone like a separate atom (but
>>>>> if I
>>>>> turn the last page I will ³fall² in another chapter), someone does not
>>>>> support linear-no at all. Et ceterae.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I hope the working group could still think about a digial pubblication
>>>>> that allow *multiple* reading order by default, and not a single one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fabrizio Venerandi
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C 
Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704

Received on Monday, 7 August 2017 09:40:52 UTC