Re: Primary Source again (Re: PROV-ISSUE-518: Data Model Section 5.2.4 ) [prov-dm]

HI Stephan,

I would just drop "relation" (because we define the concept) and 
"represents":

A primary source is a derivation from an entity that was produced by 
some agent with direct experience and knowledge about the entity's 
conceptual topic, at the time of the topic's study, without benefit of 
hindsight.

Luc

On 09/25/2012 05:48 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote:
> How is this?
>
> A primary source relation represents a derivation from an entity that 
> was produced by some agent with direct experience and knowledge about 
> the entity's conceptual topic, at the time of the topic's study, 
> without benefit of hindsight.
>
> --Stephan
>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 3:41 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk 
> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> How do we address this issue?
>> The current definition is:
>>
>> Aprimary source^◊ 
>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#concept-primary-source> for a topic 
>> refers to something produced by some agent with direct experience and 
>> knowledge about the topic, at the time of the topic's study, without 
>> benefit from hindsight.
>>
>> I wonder whether the wording 'refers to' is suitable here. We don't 
>> mean 'is', but 'a derivation from'. Would this address the concern?
>>
>> Luc
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2012 09:46, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>> PROV-ISSUE-518: Data Model Section 5.2.4   [prov-dm]
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/518
>>>
>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/LC_Feedback#Data_Model_Section_5.2.4
>>>
>>> ISSUE-463
>>>
>>> The definition of a "primary source" implies that it is an entity when in fact the term qualifies the role that a given entity plays during the creation of a new entity, not the derivation itself. This might seem to be a minor point, but it is clearly different from both revision and quotation, both of which could be used when deriving a new entity from an entity used as a primary source.
>>>
>>> It is also important to note that a given entity might be a primary source for one entity but not another ("primary source" is context-dependent).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>
>> -- 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm