Re: PROV-ISSUE-329 (jzhao): prov:wasStartedByActivity sub-property of prov:wasInformedBy? [mapping prov-dm <-> prov-o]

Hi Tim,

2012/3/16 Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>

> Daniel, Jun,
>
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2012, at 7:50 AM, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>
> Hi Jun,
>
> you have an example in DM, but to keep it short:
> If I have a computer program (cp1) that generates a log file (lf1) and
> starts a web service (ws1), then
> ws1 is not informed by cp1 (it does not consume any of the
> generated outputs by the computer program), but it was started by it.
>
> On the other side, if I have a third activity (a3) that uses lf1 generated
> by cp1,
> then a3 wasInformedBy cp1.
>
> Is that more clear?
>
>
> I think it would be helpful to form this example using a bit more PROV-N
> or PROV-O.
>
>
> Best,
> Daniel
>
> 2012/3/16 Jun Zhao <jun.zhao@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
>
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>> Thanks for the clarification.
>>
>> The ProvRDF doesn't provide definitions of these terms, so I looked at
>> them simply from the logic point of view.:)
>>
>
> Jun, when you say ProvRDF, do you mean the OWL file?
> "ProvRDF" means the mappings at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF
> and is different from the OWL file.
>
>
>> I guess I should go read DM but it might be faster if I can get an answer
>> from you.
>>
>> Can you give me an example to show that an activity a1 was started by
>> another activity a2, while a1 was /not/ actually informed by a2?
>>
>
>
> ^^^ This is a perfect phrasing. I agree that to be started by another
> activity implies that some entity was transferred.
>
why? what if one activity just triggers another one withouth transferring
it anything?

>
>
> :activity_2
>   prov:wasStartedByActivity :activity_1
> .
>
> ==>
>
> :activity_1
>    prov:generated :go
> .
>
> :activity_2
>   prov:used :go;
>   prov:wasStartedByActivity :activity_1;
>   prov:wasInformedBy :activity_1;
> .
>
>
> -Tim
>
> Thanks,
Daniel

>
>
>
>> Sorry if I am raising a repeated technical discussion. If you or others
>> could point me to relevant issues to look at, I would most appreciate it.
>> This will help me to decide where this term should belong to in the prov-o
>> spec and whether an additional example is needed.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Jun
>>
>>
>> On 16/03/2012 11:00, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jun,
>>> I don't think this is appropriate: wasInformedBy expresses dependencies
>>> within activities
>>> (i.e., p2 generated e1 and p1 used p1), while wasStartedByActivity just
>>> indicates that p2 started p1.
>>>
>>> In both cases there is a dependency, but I don't think it's enough to
>>> make
>>> one subclass of the other.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> 2012/3/16 Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker<sysbot+tracker@w3.org>
>>>
>>>  PROV-ISSUE-329 (jzhao): prov:wasStartedByActivity sub-property of
>>>> prov:wasInformedBy? [mapping prov-dm<->  prov-o]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/**track/issues/329<http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/329>
>>>>
>>>> Raised by: Jun Zhao
>>>> On product: mapping prov-dm<->  prov-o
>>>>
>>>> Should prov:wasStartedByActivity be sub-property of prov:wasInformedBy?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>