Re: PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation [prov-dm]

And a further point: why 'someone' in this definition? Always a Person? Can't running software perform quotation?

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 20 Apr 2012, at 14:13, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu<mailto:zednis@rpi.edu>> wrote:



On Apr 20, 2012, at 6:58 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:

I believe the definition is not enforceable/verifiable practically.

In the spirit of simplification I suggest we allow for self-quotation.  The definition should be :

A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or image,
by someone who may or may not be its original author.

In that case, couldn't we just shorten this to "by someone"?

--Stephan





Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 20 Apr 2012, at 13:32, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu<mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:


On Apr 20, 2012, at 5:53 AM, Paul Groth wrote:

I think it's hard to come-up with validity rules. In terms of being
from another author... I'm sure people will "quote themselves" but I
think that's a perfectly fine breakage of the normal definition of
quotation.

+1

The "other author" can be prov:alternateOf the quoting agent :-)
You're quoting yourself which was in a different context.

I don't see a need to try to enforce distinctness.

-Tim


Paul



On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
Ok, but how can we enforce it? What does it mean to be "other" in a PROV context?
Do we need validity rules?


Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 20 Apr 2012, at 09:06, "Paul Groth" <p.t.groth@vu.nl<mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>> wrote:

Hi Luc,

Err.. I took the definition of quotation directly from the dictionary :-)

So you'd have to argue with them.

cheers
Paul

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue
Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org<mailto:sysbot+tracker@w3.org>> wrote:
PROV-ISSUE-357 (author-in-quotation): author in definition of quotation [prov-dm]

http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/357

Raised by: Luc Moreau
On product: prov-dm


The definition of Quotation [1] is:

A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, such as text or image, by someone other than its original author.

Do we really mean that I wouldn't be entitled to quote myself?    If it's the case, what does it mean to be "someone other than the original author"? are alternates OK?

http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#concept-quotation








--
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl<mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
Artificial Intelligence Section
Department of Computer Science
VU University Amsterdam




--
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl<mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
Artificial Intelligence Section
Department of Computer Science
VU University Amsterdam