- From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:07:55 +0100
- To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <EMEW3|5248d9063af366a766b7815a4a43c4e2o3IM8208L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4F907EAB>
Hi Daniel and Tim, I agree with Tim that hadQuoteFrom changes the meaning. Luc On 19/04/12 21:13, Timothy Lebo wrote: > > On Apr 19, 2012, at 3:31 PM, Daniel Garijo wrote: > >> Hi Luc, >> hmmm and what about my other suggestion, "hadQuoteFrom" ? >> > > Daniel, > > I'm not in favor of changing it. > > I think your suggestion of hadQuoteFrom changes the meaning of the > definition, where the quote is not THE thing taken from the original > source, but CONTAINS something taken from the original source (and > thus a subsequent derivation). > > e.g. > > :composite_tweet > a :Tweet; > prov:value "I have always loved the #blah. Like @Abe said, "Four > score and seven years ago"; > daniel:hadQuoteFrom > <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>; # This is not the > meaning of the current definition "the repeat of (some or all of) an > entity.." > prov:wasAttributedTo twitter:timrdf, > <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Abraham_Lincoln>; > prov:qualifiedAttribution [ > a prov:Attribution; > prov:agent <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Abraham_Lincoln>; > prov:hadRole "contributor", "quoted"; > ] > prov:qualifiedAttribution [ > a prov:Attribution; > prov:agent twitter:timrdf; > prov:hadRole "composer", "quoter"; > ] > prov:wasDerivedFrom :actual_phrase; ## This derivation shows the > distinction between the meaning of what you propose and how it is > currently defined. > ] > > is NOT the same as > > :actual_phrase > a :Phrase; > prov:value "Four score and seven years ago"; > prov:wasQuotedFrom <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>; > prov:wasAttributedTo twitter:timrdf; > . > > <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address> > a frbr:Work; > prov:wasAttributedTo <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Abraham_Lincoln>; > . > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address> > a foaf:Document; > prov:specializationOf <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Gettysburg_Address>; > . > > > -Tim > > > > >> >> Thanks, >> Daniel >> >> 2012/4/19 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> >> >> Daniel, >> We started with wasQuoteOf >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-prov-dm-20111018/#quotation >> But moved away because not clear. >> >> Luc >> >> >> Professor Luc Moreau >> Electronics and Computer Science >> University of Southampton >> Southampton SO17 1BJ >> United Kingdom >> >> On 19 Apr 2012, at 17:39, "Daniel Garijo" >> <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es >> <mailto:dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>> wrote: >> >>> Hi Luc, >>> the definition on DM is very clear to me. >>> >>> What makes me feel a bit unconfortable is that while I can >>> understand what is on the domain >>> and what is on the range on each of the other properties, for >>> this one I think it is a bit confusing. >>> (When I say domain and range, I refer to what is being quoted >>> (original) and what is the quote). >>> >>> I have asked 3 colleagues in my lab to tell me what did they >>> think they were the range and the domain >>> of the property with an example, (without looking at the >>> definition of the DM). One of them agreed with the DM, >>> another one guessed wrong and the last one encouraged me to >>> change the naming because "it made >>> no much sense" to him. >>> >>> I'm not sure if users that assert scruffy provenance will come >>> to the DM to read all the definitions, >>> and that is why to make sure this kind of things are very clear >>> for everyone. Thus, I don't propose >>> to change the definitions, I just suggest to rename >>> "wasQuotedFrom" to either: >>> "wasQuoteOf" or "hadQuoteFrom". >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Daniel >>> >>> 2012/4/19 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> >>> >>> Hi Daniel, >>> >>> This is the current definition of quotation. Is there still >>> a concern with it? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Luc >>> >>> 4.3.3 Quotation >>> >>> A quotation is the repeat of (some or all of) an entity, >>> such as text or image, by someone other than its original >>> author. >>> >>> Quotation is a particular case of derivation in which entity >>> e2 is derived from an original entity e1 by copying, or >>> "quoting", some or all of it. A quotation relation, written >>> wasQuotedFrom(id,e2,e1,ag2,ag1,attrs) in PROV-N, has: >>> >>> id: an optional identifier for the relation; >>> quote: an identifier (e2) for the entity that represents the >>> quote (the partial copy); >>> original: an identifier (e1) for the original entity being >>> quoted; >>> quoterAgent: an optional identifier (ag2) for the agent who >>> performs the quote; >>> originalAgent: an optional identifier (ag1) for the agent to >>> whom the original entity is attributed; >>> attributes: an optional set (attrs) of attribute-value pairs >>> representing additional information about this relation. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 04/19/2012 11:28 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue >>> Tracker wrote: >>> >>> PROV-ISSUE-352 (rename-WasQuotedFrom): A better name for >>> wasQuotedFrom [prov-dm] >>> >>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/352 >>> >>> Raised by: Daniel Garijo >>> On product: prov-dm >>> >>> Currently, the DM says: >>> A quotation record, written >>> wasQuotedFrom(e2,e1,ag2,ag1,attrs) in PROV-ASN, contains: >>> quote: an identifier e2, identifying an entity >>> record that represents the quote; >>> quoted: an identifier e1, identifying an entity >>> record representing what is being quoted; >>> ... >>> >>> However, if we say that e2 wasQuotedFrom e1 it may look >>> like entity e1 is the one quoting e2 (since we are >>> saying that e2 was quoted). >>> >>> I think it would be more clear if we rename the property >>> with e2 wasQuoteOf e1, or e2 hadQuoteFrom e1. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> Thanks, >>> Daniel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Professor Luc Moreau >>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 >>> <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487> >>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 >>> <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%202865> >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: >>> l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> >>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm >>> <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> >>> >>> >>> >> >
Received on Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:08:29 UTC