Re: Prov-o call on Monday 12:00noon US ET

Hi all,
the minutes from our meeting can be found at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology_Meeting_2011-10-24

There are some TODOs for Satya, Khalid, Stian, Tim and me, so we have
decided that
Satya is going to do the changes to the document today and Khalid and I
tomorrow.

Best,
Daniel

2011/10/24 Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>

>  On 24/10/2011 16:54, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>
> On 24/10/2011 16:49, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>
> Yes, Khalid, but if you have the same entity used 2 times by different
> process executions
> with the same role, you would also need 2 different EntityInRole.
>
> Yes, if the same entity play two different roles w.r.t. the same process
> execution, then we need to create two different EntityInRoles.
>
>
> I meant if the same entity plays the same role in 2 different process
> executions, then we need to create two different entityInRoles.
>
> khalid
>
>
>
> Imagine that pe1 uses e1Input1 (entity e1 with role: Input1) at time t1.
> According to our current modeling, we would assert t1 to the entityInRole
> (with hasTemporalValue).
>
> If some time later we execute another p2 that uses e1 with the same role at
> time t2, we cannot use e1Input1,
> because it has already associated t1. That is why we would need e1Input1'
> (a new EntityInRole instance).
>
> But I remember we already discussed this with Satya :S
> It seems that we should make it clear somewhere, since people are getting
> confused.
>
> Yes, I agree. We need to write it down. It is probably not the most elegant
> solution, but it is a solution that works :-)
>
> khalid
>
>
> Best,
> Daniel
>
> 2011/10/24 Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
>
>>  On 24/10/2011 15:44, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:07, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  That's exactly the point, time is associated with generation/use, not
>>>> entities.
>>>>
>>> But as we have not (as of yet) made a deliberate n-ary relationship
>>> Generation or Use class in PROV-O - so prov:wasGeneratedAt is
>>> associated with an Entity (as it can only be generated once within an
>>> account) and prov:assumedRoleAt with an EntityInRole (as it can only
>>> be prov:wasASsumedBy one Entity).
>>>
>>>
>>> To be fair this is not a direct mapping with PROV-DM, because it would
>>> allow the same entity-in-role to be prov:used by two different PEs -
>>> the prov:assumedRoleAt would only record time of the first such use.
>>> On the other hand a PE could actually be using the entity several
>>> times, and we don't have a way to record each of these unless we do it
>>> as separate roles each time. (And still can't capture the duration of
>>> the use)
>>>
>>  >From my understanding that is not the case. If the same entity is used
>> twice by two different process executions or by the same process execution,
>> then we will have to create two EntityInRole(s) each associated with a
>> different role.
>>
>> For example consider an entity e that is used by a process execution p
>> such that the role of e w.r.t. p is  r, and let p' be another process
>> execution that uses e such that the role of e w.r.t. p' is r'.
>>
>> Using prov-o, we will have two entityinRoles that represent the entity e
>> but with different roles. Consider that these entityinroles are er and er'.
>> er and er' will have as properties the characterizing attributes of e.
>> Additionally, er (resp. er') will have the role property r (resp. r').
>>
>> Khalid
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>