- From: Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
- Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:43:42 +0100
- To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
- CC: "Myers, Jim" <MYERSJ4@rpi.edu>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker <sysbot+tracker@w3.org>
Ok, I must admit I didn't understand that. Just to clarify, when one say isDerivedFrom(b1,b2,t), does that means that b2 was created at t? Thanks, khalid On 24/07/2011 18:33, Paul Groth wrote: > Hi Khalid, > > I don't think this is what I mean. > > It's not when the assertion was made. It's when the derivation occurred according to the asserter. > > Just as with use and generation. It's the time at which these events occur according to the asserter. > > Thanks > Paul > > On Jul 24, 2011, at 18:08, Khalid Belhajjame<Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote: > >> On 24/07/2011 15:35, Myers, Jim wrote: >>> (The time is not the interval over which the derivation relation is >>> valid - in the same way the time on USED is not the time when that >>> relation is valid (it would be if the semantics were 'in use during >>> interval t') - both just describe the time when an enduring relationship >>> was first formed.) >> Agreed, that what I was hinting to in my last response email to Paul. >> The time I was referring to in my email was the validity, but Paul, I >> think, was talking about the time where the derivation was formed. >> >> Which leads me to a new proposal. Instead of having the time as argument >> to USE, GENERATION and derivation, e.g., isDerivedFrom(b1,b2,t). Would >> it be sensible to assume, instead, that every assertion may be >> associated with a time in which it was formed? >> >> Thanks, Khalid >> >>> Jim >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: public-prov-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-prov-wg- >>>> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Khalid Belhajjame >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 8:27 AM >>>> To: Paul Groth >>>> Cc: Provenance Working Group WG; Provenance Working Group Issue >>> Tracker >>>> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-43 (derivation-time): Deriviation should have >>>> associated time [Conceptual Model] >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Paul, >>>> >>>> On 24/07/2011 13:13, Paul Groth wrote: >>>>> Hi Khalid >>>>> But why can't I say that a newspaper article is derived from a >>> picture at a >>>> particular time? Or for that matter over a period of time. >>>> >>>> The way I see it, is that there will be a bob representing the >>> newspaper article >>>> and another representing the picture. If there is evidence that the >>> latter is >>>> derived from the former, then the derivation will always hold between >>> those >>>> two bobs. >>>> >>>> Now, that I am writing this email, I am wondering whether we are >>> referring to >>>> the same notion of time. In your statement, isDerivedFrom(b1,b2,t), I >>> think you >>>> mean t is used to refers to the time in which the derivation assertion >>> was >>>> made, whereas what I was thinking of is the (period of) time in which >>> the >>>> derivation holds. Is that the case? >>>> >>>> Thanks, khalid >>>>> The time is when the derivation occurred not when it applies. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 24, 2011, at 13:06, Khalid >>>> Belhajjame<Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that "Use" and "Generation" should be associated with time. >>>>>> However, I don't think we should associate time to derivation. >>>>>> I would argue that isDerivedFrom(b1,b2) holds all time. Although b1 >>>>>> and >>>>>> b2 may no longer exist, isDerivedFrom(b1,b2) is still valid. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, khalid >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23/07/2011 16:46, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote: >>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-43 (derivation-time): Deriviation should have >>> associated >>>>>>> time [Conceptual Model] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/43 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Raised by: Paul Groth >>>>>>> On product: Conceptual Model >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Other relationships have time associated with them (e.g. use, >>>>>>> generation, control) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is no optional time associated with derivation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Suggested resolution is to add the following to the definition of >>>> isDerivedFrom: >>>>>>> - May contain a "derived from time" t, the time or time intervals >>>>>>> when b1 was derived from b2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Example: >>>>>>> isDerivedFrom(b1,b2, t) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
Received on Sunday, 24 July 2011 18:44:10 UTC