- From: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 16:10:49 +0100
- To: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>
- CC: W3C Prov <public-prov-comments@w3.org>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <559402F9.9000208@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi Daniel, I didn't think there was formal proposal to remove generatedAtTime. This can only be enacted by a new Working Group in any case. I understood Tim's email (and previous conversation I had with him) as logging of a discrepancy between prov-o and prov-dm, to be resolved by a future Working Group. Luc On 01/07/2015 15:56, Daniel Garijo wrote: > Hi Luc, > I understand. However, prov:generatedAtTime was introduced as a > shortcut function. > I have seen it widely used by people adopting PROV in order to avoid > having to use blank nodes or qualified terms. > > It is also used in the prov-dc direct mappings for mapping > dct:created, dct:dateAccepted, dct:dateCopyRighted, dct:dateSubmitted, > dct:issued and dct:modified. That document was reviewed and accepted > by the group. > > If we now remove this relationship, it will create inconsistencies > with the PROV-DC document. And it will introduce inconsistencies with > the people who have extended and adopted PROV. I think it is better to > have prov:generatedAtTime as redundant shortcut property rather than > remove it. > > Best, > Daniel > > 2015-07-01 16:38 GMT+02:00 Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk > <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>: > > Hi Daniel, > > We don't have formal mappings between our representations. So, I > am not sure there is an authoritative > answer. > > Looking at activities, in prov-n, we can write: > activity(a,2001-10-26T21:32:52,2001-10-26T21:32:53) > This corresponds to > a prov:startedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52. > a prov:endedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:53. > > For entities, we don't have time information allowed in prov-n: > > entity(e) > > Instead, wasGeneratedBy(e,-,2001-10-26T21:32:52) can be translated > using the qualitifed pattern. > > e prov:hadQualifiedGeneration [ prov:atTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52] > > > Luc > > > > On 01/07/2015 15:27, Daniel Garijo wrote: >> Hi Luc, >> I am sorry, but I must be missing something here. >> generatedAt time (Entity->dateTime) is an attribute of Entity. >> atTime (InstantaneousEvent ->dateTime) is an attirbute of >> Generation, among others like End or Start. >> >> Example 20 in Prov-DM >> (http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2) >> states that "wasGeneratedBy(e, -, 2001-10-26T21:32:52)" is valid. >> And that is equivalent to "e prov:generatedAtTime >> 2001-10-26T21:32:52", right? >> >> I still fail to see where the issue is :( >> Daniel >> >> 2015-07-01 16:10 GMT+02:00 Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk >> <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>: >> >> Hi Daniel, >> >> Time is an attribute of generation, not of entity, as it >> currently stands. >> >> Luc >> >> >> On 01/07/2015 15:04, Daniel Garijo wrote: >>> Hi Tim, >>> are you suggesting to delete prov:generatedAtTime?? >>> Example 20 in PROV-DM shows how to do the equivalent thing >>> with DM: >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2 >>> >>> I think this was a very useful property for stating the >>> creation time of an entity without having to qualify the >>> generation term. >>> It is also used in the prov-dc mapping. I don't understand >>> why this is an issue. >>> Best, >>> Daniel >>> >>> 2015-07-01 15:37 GMT+02:00 Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu >>> <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>>: >>> >>> >>> Please note a recent addition to the PROV Errata >>> [1] regarding PROV-O’s generation and invalidation >>> time properties, copied below. >>> >>> The entry resolves issue [2]. >>> >>> Thanks to Luc and his team for pointing out the disparity. >>> Thanks to Ivan for publishing the revised Errata document. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> Error o-5 >>> <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5>, >>> generation and invalidation time properties have >>> no equivalent in prov-dm >>> >>> in (22) Property: prov:generatedAtTime >>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#generatedAtTime> and in >>> (27) Property: prov:invalidatedAtTime >>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#invalidatedAtTime>, >>> prov:generatedAtTime and prov:invalidatedAtTime >>> properties should not be defined because they have no >>> equivalent in prov-dm and thus no equivalent in other >>> PROV serializations. >>> >>> (22) Property: prov:generatedAtTime >>> >>> IRI:http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#generatedAtTime >>> <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#generatedAtTime> >>> >>> (27) Property: prov:invalidatedAtTime >>> >>> IRI:http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#invalidatedAtTime >>> <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#invalidatedAtTime> >>> >>> >>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5 >>> [2] https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/issues/4 >>> >>> Timothy Lebo >>> lebot@rpi.edu <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu> >>> https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Professor Luc Moreau >> Head of the Web and Internet Science Group >> Electronics and Computer Science tel:+44 23 8059 4487 <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487> >> University of Southampton twitter: @lucmoreau >> Southampton SO17 1BJ, UKhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> >> >> >> > > -- > Professor Luc Moreau > Head of the Web and Internet Science Group > Electronics and Computer Science tel:+44 23 8059 4487 <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487> > University of Southampton twitter: @lucmoreau > Southampton SO17 1BJ, UKhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> > > > -- Professor Luc Moreau Head of the Web and Internet Science Group Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 University of Southampton twitter: @lucmoreau Southampton SO17 1BJ, UK http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Wednesday, 1 July 2015 15:11:48 UTC