Re: New PROV Errata entry

Hi Luc,
I understand. However, prov:generatedAtTime was introduced as a shortcut
function.
I have seen it widely used by people adopting PROV in order to avoid having
to use blank nodes or qualified terms.

It is also used in the prov-dc direct mappings for mapping dct:created,
dct:dateAccepted, dct:dateCopyRighted, dct:dateSubmitted, dct:issued and
dct:modified. That document was reviewed and accepted by the group.

If we now remove this relationship, it will create inconsistencies with the
PROV-DC document. And it will introduce inconsistencies with the people who
have extended and adopted PROV. I think it is better to have
prov:generatedAtTime as redundant shortcut property rather than remove it.

Best,
Daniel

2015-07-01 16:38 GMT+02:00 Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>:

>  Hi Daniel,
>
> We don't have formal mappings between our representations. So, I am not
> sure there is an authoritative
> answer.
>
> Looking at activities, in prov-n, we can write:
>   activity(a,2001-10-26T21:32:52,2001-10-26T21:32:53)
> This corresponds to
> a prov:startedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52.
> a prov:endedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:53.
>
> For entities, we don't have time information allowed in prov-n:
>
>   entity(e)
>
> Instead, wasGeneratedBy(e,-,2001-10-26T21:32:52) can be translated using
> the qualitifed pattern.
>
>   e prov:hadQualifiedGeneration [ prov:atTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52]
>
>
> Luc
>
>
>
> On 01/07/2015 15:27, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>
>    Hi Luc,
>  I am sorry, but I must be missing something here.
>  generatedAt time (Entity->dateTime) is an attribute of Entity.
>  atTime (InstantaneousEvent ->dateTime) is an attirbute of Generation,
> among others like End or Start.
>
>  Example 20 in Prov-DM (
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2)
> states that "wasGeneratedBy(e, -, 2001-10-26T21:32:52)" is valid. And that
> is equivalent to "e prov:generatedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52", right?
>
>  I still fail to see where the issue is :(
>  Daniel
>
> 2015-07-01 16:10 GMT+02:00 Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>:
>
>>  Hi Daniel,
>>
>> Time is an attribute of generation, not of entity, as it currently stands.
>>
>> Luc
>>
>>
>> On 01/07/2015 15:04, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>>
>>   Hi Tim,
>>  are you suggesting to delete prov:generatedAtTime??
>>  Example 20 in PROV-DM shows how to do the equivalent thing with  DM:
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2
>>
>>  I think this was a very useful property for stating the creation time of
>> an entity without having to qualify the generation term.
>>  It is also used in the prov-dc mapping. I don't understand why this is
>> an issue.
>>  Best,
>>  Daniel
>>
>> 2015-07-01 15:37 GMT+02:00 Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>:
>>
>>>  Please note a recent addition to the PROV Errata [1] regarding
>>> PROV-O’s generation and invalidation time properties, copied below.
>>> The entry resolves issue [2].
>>>
>>>  Thanks to Luc and his team for pointing out the disparity.
>>> Thanks to Ivan for publishing the revised Errata document.
>>>
>>>  Regards,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>  Error o-5 <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5>, generation
>>> and invalidation time properties have no equivalent in prov-dm
>>>
>>> in (22) Property: prov:generatedAtTime
>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#generatedAtTime> and in (27) Property:
>>> prov:invalidatedAtTime <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#invalidatedAtTime>,
>>> prov:generatedAtTime and prov:invalidatedAtTime properties should not be
>>> defined because they have no equivalent in prov-dm and thus no equivalent
>>> in other PROV serializations.
>>>
>>> (22) Property: prov:generatedAtTime
>>>
>>> IRI:http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#generatedAtTime
>>>
>>> (27) Property: prov:invalidatedAtTime
>>>
>>> IRI:http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#invalidatedAtTime
>>>
>>>  [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5
>>> [2] https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/issues/4
>>>
>>>  Timothy Lebo
>>> lebot@rpi.edu
>>> https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo
>>>
>>>
>>
>>   --
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Head of the Web and Internet Science Group
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          twitter: @lucmoreau
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ, UK           http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>
>>
>
> --
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Head of the Web and Internet Science Group
> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
> University of Southampton          twitter: @lucmoreau
> Southampton SO17 1BJ, UK           http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>
>