Minutes from Pointer Events WG call 17 February 2021

Dear all,

minutes from today's call are at 
https://www.w3.org/2021/02/17-pointerevents-minutes.html and also copied 

PEWG 17 February 2021


mustaq, patrick_h_lauke, smaug
Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke

* Reword/expand touch-action definition 
* Major refactoring: refer to "direct manipulation" rather than "touch" 
* Add a SHOULD clause about pan gestures and what happens if a gesture 
suddenly changes direction https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/351

Meeting minutes

# Reword/expand touch-action definition 

Patrick: [asking if people have had a chance to look over this PR - not 
yet. raising potential concern around wording/IPR issues that may be 
tied to talking too much about "gesture", but think it's unavoidable and 
should hopefully not pose a big problem]

Mustaq: looking at the diff. wondering if we can avoid the potentially 
problematic word?

Patrick: it does get awkward trying to avoid the word. I think we have 
some other places where we talk about "gestures", even in our charter in 
terms what we WON'T cover

<mustaq> One suggestion for "auto": "The user agent MAY determine any 
permitted touch behaviors that affect panning/scrolling and zooming of 
the viewport, for touches that begin on the element."

Olli: i think so far only in notes, not spec text

Patrick: let me try and reword without "gesture"

[group looks at some specific wordings]

Patrick: updated the PR https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/349/files

Patrick: while we're here, 

Patrick: that first sentence and note make no sense to me

Mustaq: [explains that this is about preventDefault shouldn't affect 

<mustaq> Bottom line: browser panning decision shouldn't be blocked by 
JS event handler's prevent-defaulting.

<mustaq> If the default action of any event is panning/zooming, then the 
browser has to wait for the event handler code to finish before deciding 
to manipulate.

<mustaq> which hurts responsiveness.

Patrick: this feels like a non-sequitur. it may need something positive 
first a la "By default, on touchscreens, touch manipulations lead to 
panning/zooming regardless of JS. this is for performance reasons 
(scrolling etc doesn't wait for JS first). But if developers/authors are 
doing something specific, they want a way to opt out of that, that's 
where touch-action comes in"

Patrick: I'll make a separate PR for this once i wrapped my head around 
this some more

Patrick: with the PR, are we ok with it or need more time to review?

Mustaq: may need a few days just to double-check

Patrick: sure, no rush. let's aim for decision before next meeting

# Major refactoring: refer to "direct manipulation" rather than "touch" 

<mustaq> InputDeviceCapabilities: here is a Chrome bug 

Olli: concerned about WICG reference

Patrick: this was already in PE2 and nobody blinked

<smaug> Olli: could have 'direct manipulation action' in the glossary 
using touch action as an example, that way looking for 'touch action' 
would still find something.

[making some changes to spec, adding extra wording]

Mustaq: instead of on call, let's iterate over this on github

Patrick: sure, this is important and complex, but if we can get this 
right (or at least acceptable), it'll be a huge win. for PE4 if that 
ever happens, we can then consider more fundamental changes like 
renaming the CSS property itself

# Add a SHOULD clause about pan gestures and what happens if a gesture 
suddenly changes direction https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/351

[discussing the use of "gesture" here again]

Patrick: we could remove the first instance of "gesture", but the second 
one becomes tricky... "direct manipulation path"? "direction of the 
direct manipulation action"? they start becoming very obscure and 
made-up. I'm tempted to say this is a reasonably valid use of the 
generic word "gesture", as we're not trying to define it, only making a 
reference to it...

Mustaq: let's try to come up with some ideas on github if there's 
anything we can change it to

Patrick: sure, let's get this aspect right.

Patrick: these three issues are the last big ones I feel we have 
outstanding, if we can get these right we'll be in a good position. 
meanwhile, remaining issues in github, feel free to change labels to 
"future" for insteresting ideas that we know we won't get to in time for 
PE3. let's keep momentum going, and reconvene in 2 weeks' time

Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

Received on Wednesday, 17 February 2021 17:48:50 UTC