- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:25:36 -0400
- To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the March 25 voice conference are available at
the following and copied below:
<http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html>
WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before April 1. In the
absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.
-Thanks, ArtB
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Pointer Events WG Voice Conference
25 Mar 2014
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0194.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-irc
Attendees
Present
Arthur_Barstow, Jacob_Rossi, Asir_Vedamuthu,
Scott_Gonzalez, Cathy_Chan, Rick_Byers, Olli_Pettay,
Matt_Brubeck, Doug_Schepers
Regrets
Sangwhan_Moon, Patrick_Lauke
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Tweak Agenda
2. [6]Bug 24923: What should happen to the mouse events
if pointer event listener removes the target ...
3. [7]Bug 24971: Should got/lostpointercapture be
dispatched asynchronously or synchronously
4. [8]Sub-pixel coordinate granularity
5. [9]Touch-action to SVG elements
6. [10]Exception usage
7. [11]Feedback on pointer events
8. [12]Testing: Jacob's latest commits for PR 324 needs
review
9. [13]CR implementation updates
10. [14]AoB
* [15]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Art
Tweak Agenda
AB: any change requests to the draft agenda
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0194.html?
[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0194.html?
Bug 24923: What should happen to the mouse events if pointer event
listener removes the target ...
AB: we discussed but 24923
<[17]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24923> on
March 11
<[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#it
em07> and didn't reach consensus on what to do (or not do).
There has been no followup in the bug or on the list since that
call.
[17] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24923%3E
[18] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#item07%3E
OP: think we should follow IE
… and put that behavior in the spec
RB: would be good to get details from Jacob
… and he did that
… now we need to spec it
JR: agree we want that in the spec
… not sure how I would insert this into the spec
… could be better for me to create a changeset and for people
to discuss that
RB: sounds good
<scribe> ACTION: jacob create a changeset for bug 24923 and
sent it to the list for review [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-98 - Create a changeset for bug 24923
and sent it to the list for review [on Jacob Rossi - due
2014-04-01].
AB: ok, thanks Jacob
Bug 24971: Should got/lostpointercapture be dispatched asynchronously
or synchronously
AB: we discussed bug 24971
<[20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24971> on
March 11
<[21]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#it
em08> and didn't reach consensus on what to do (or not do).
There has been no followup in the bug or on the list since that
call.
[20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24971%3E
[21] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#item08%3E
JR: I can add some info to the bug
… Olli had a related Q re the order
… in our imp when calll setptrcapture, we set a pending capture
node
[ Jacob gives details of IE impl … ]
… So this is similar to what Olli says in comment #2
[ Jacob gives details about Olli's comment #4 ]
OP: that gives a surprising result
[ Olli gives a scenario that could result in surprising results
]
JR: if get gotcapture, we guarantee you get a lostptrcapture
… I agree we need to update the spec
… Similar to one of Anne's comments
… Need to make the spec clearer but need to make sure we all
agree on the behavior for these scenarios
OP: wonder if this is just a bit too complicated and just fire
synch events
… synch handling would make the algorithm simpler
JR: we had probs with apps when we had synch firing of the
events
… we could say that's bad app behavior
… i.e. tight loops of setting capture
RB: would like to understand what the apps were trying to do in
those cases
JR: that would require some investigation (been a few years)
SG: are storage events synch (like localStorage)
JR: if there are no other synch events, we probably don't want
to address this
… if people have to deal with synch with click, then doing
something like that could be ok
OP: if multiple clicks on same target, don't have to handle all
RB: so similar problem then
… we could say calling setptrcapt from within the context of
gotptrcapt handle isn't legal
<smaug> just a sec
… If I understand Olli, with click, the spec prevents that (to
stop recursive issues)
JR: not sure which is better
<smaug>
[22]http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#run-synt
hetic-click-activation-steps
[22] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#run-synthetic-click-activation-steps
OP: I kind of like this behavior because it prevents endless
loops
RB: would be nice if we could say we have the same prob as
click event
... I can look into this
… Seems sensible to make it behave like click
… I can look up the motivation for asynch and add to the bug
RB: would be good to have a site that uses asynch
JR: I'll check on the IE bugs that caused this behavior and add
information to our bug
<scribe> ACTION: Jacob investigate IE behavior re bug 24971 and
add that info to the bug [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - Investigate ie behavior re bug
24971 and add that info to the bug [on Jacob Rossi - due
2014-04-01].
Sub-pixel coordinate granularity
AB: Rick's March 18 e-mail
<[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0190.html> was a followup to a thread he started in
December 2013
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013OctDec/0074.html.
... we discussed Rick's December e-mail during our January 7
call
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#ite
m06 and Jacob agreed to add a related non-normative note
[27]https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/62.
... however, it appears Rick's March 18 e-mail could be
touching on different but related issues.
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0190.html%3E
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0074.html.
[26] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#item06
[27] https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/62.
RB: the Q about when fractional coords can be returned is an
open Q
… MSDN has some doc about this
JR: we are consistent
RB: do you do that for mouse events too?
JR: yes, I believe so
RB: is that causing any issues?
JR: not positive (we have a CSSOM switch)
RB: we are going to try to change blink to use float
… and see what sites break
JR: please let us know the results
AB: so where are we then?
RB: I would like to hear more about IE but I don't think our
spec needs to change
JR: yes, I agree no PE spec change needed but I can get some
more info
<asir> /me my connection keeps dropping today :)
RESOLUTION: the group agrees there is no need to change the
spec re the "Sub-pixel coordinate granularity" topic
Touch-action to SVG elements
AB: Jacob's March 21 e-mail
<[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0191.html> was a followup to an e-mail in January
from Samsung.
<[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/att-0016/00-part>.
... Jacob included a proposal in his e-mail. If we agree with
Jacob's proposal one way forward would be to action Jacob to
create a bug, submit a changeset and then Resolve/Fix the bug;
if anyone objects, they can re-open the bug.
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0191.html%3E
[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/att-0016/00-part%3E.
RB: thanks Jacob for the details
… your proposal sounds great to me
JR: you know Chrome doesn't match it, right?
RB: yes, and I'll file a bug to get that fixed
… (probably won't get fixed for 35 but will get a fix for 36)
JR: Olli, same for FF
OP: yes
RB: would be nice to have an ED with this fix
JR: I can do that today
RB: if have a web site that is broken, that'd be helpful
AB: so you'll update the spec then Jacob?
JR: yes, will do
RESOLUTION: the group agrees Jacob's proposal for "Touch-action
to SVG elements "topic is OK
Exception usage
AB: Anne's March 16 followup
<[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0185.html> and the original thread starts at
<[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0067.html>. Matt has action-73 to followup with Anne
[32]https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/73.
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0185.html%3E
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0067.html%3E.
[32] https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/73.
JR: this is a compat problem for IE
… I also am not convinced what we are doing is really a compat
issue
AB: what about Chrome and FF?
RB: not sure offhand
… I'd be surprised if this was a problem for us
OP: I don't think this is an issue for us
AB: it appears we support the current value
… and we don't want to change it
JR: if there was strong consensus to change that's one thing
but I don't think there is
… I feel like we are chasing a moving target
… and only change if there is clear and convincing evidence we
should change
… Thus I prefer to leave the spec as is
RB: I agree there doesn't appear to be strong consistency
argument
… so I am ok with leaving spec as is
AB: DRAFT RESOLUTION: group agrees to keep the spec as is re
"Exception Usage" topic
OP: we could ask Anne about the stability of the decision he is
pushing
AB: how about Matt?
MB: that action-73 is something different
<mbrubeck_>
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0082.html
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0082.html
AB: so Matt, Olli do we want to continue to discuss this or
adopt the Draft Resolution?
<smaug> smaug annevk: who stable is this DOMException/Error
handling stuff
[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0185.html
[34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0185.html
MB: Anne pointed to an es_discuss thread that didn't appear to
have a solid conclusion
<smaug> annevk smaug: it isn't
… we could see if anything else has been done there in DOM
and/or WebIDL
… if there is no mature decision about this, I'm OK with
leaving the spec as is
AB: would you please followup with Anne then Matt?
MB: yes, I can do that
<scribe> ACTION: Brubeck followup with Anne re the Exception
thread [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Followup with anne re the
exception thread [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-04-01].
SG: for Node, everything is done with codes
JR: within WebApps, consensus codes is bad
… because it requires centralizing
… and names/strings were supposed to be better in avoiding
collisions
<smaug> annevk smaug: I feel somewhat strongly that new APIs
should not mint new DOMException names and preferably just
throw TypeError if there's no branching needs, per Allen's
preference. and that if people disagree with that, they have a
discussion with him
AB: thanks smaug
… one question is if PE is "new" API or not given there are
sites that are using it
JR: if there is another UC, that would be helpful
<jrossi> Issue-65 has been updated (touch-action applies to:)
[36]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEv
ents.html#the-touch-action-css-property
[36] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#the-touch-action-css-property
AB: feels like we should keep this open now
MB: understand the compat issues for IE
JR: don't want to change the spec until there is broad
agreement from the DOM/ES community
… but don't want to change the spec until then
MB: ok, so sounds like we don't want to change the spec now but
if DOM or WebIDL spec changes before REC, we could revisit this
JR: that sounds ok
AB: sounds ok with me too
… are we back to a resolution we agree not to change spec based
on what we know now
JR: yes
RB: agree
RESOLUTION: group agrees to keep Exception as is
Feedback on pointer events
AB: Anne's March 17 followup
<[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0187.html>; original thread starts at
<[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0069.html>
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0187.html%3E;
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0069.html%3E
JR: I owe Anne a reply
… most is OK
… one part could be contentious re defaultActions if an event
not canceled
… could add more steps
… but some events are marked canceleable because their mouse
event counterparts are marked cancelable
… no spec defines that for mouse events
… So I'm not sure we can get to the level of crispness that
Anne wants
… I think we tried to define this in DOM 3 Events and it was
hard
DS: my recollection is lots of details is very hard
… I tried with D3E and the feedback was mostly "not good
enough"
AB: so it sounds like Jacob will reply
… and others should join the conversation
Testing: Jacob's latest commits for PR 324 needs review
AB: Jacob's e-mail
<[39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/
2014JanMar/0192.html> says PR 324 has been updated. Rick and
Cathy agreed to review the tests they have previously reviewed.
... I don't recall what the means specifically and if that
means we also need reviews from others.
[39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0192.html%3E
<smaug> and I lost connection or something
<smaug> yeah, it is 18:00, I guess Zakim kicked me out
MB: I split them up
RB: I think 1-5 are mine
… not sure who reviewed 6-8
JR: I think the wiki needs some updating
… f.ex. there are some file name updates
<mbrubeck_> Previously:
[40]http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/45
[40] http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/45
<Cathy>
[41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
013OctDec/0029.html
[41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0029.html
AB: thanks Matt
… this means review needs to be done by: Rick, Cathy, Art and
Matt
<scott_gonzalez>
[42]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/324/files?w=
1 will show the diff without whitespace changes.
[42] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/324/files?w=1
RB: were any new files added Jacob?
<scott_gonzalez> You should be able to add `?w=1` to any diff
URL.
JR: yes, I think so
… check the diff
<scott_gonzalez> For example,
[43]https://github.com/InternetExplorer/web-platform-tests/comm
it/e872664c81fbcc9d3c53ff5e171ccf48443d066c?w=1 is just the
most recent commit without whitespace chages.
[43] https://github.com/InternetExplorer/web-platform-tests/commit/e872664c81fbcc9d3c53ff5e171ccf48443d066c?w=1
RB: I'll look at anything with "capture"
JR: could you please check if there are any files without a
Reviewer?
MB: yes, I'll do that
AB: ok, thanks
AV: how do we close on the test cases?
AB: the review should be done by someone that didn't write the
tests
… all comments should be submitted to GH
JR: I can merge the request after all comments are addressed
AB: everyone please review your set of tests and put your
reveiw comments on GH
JR: if there are big issues, they should be added as GH Issues
AB: that makes sense to me
CR implementation updates
AB: any new info re implementations?
[ None ]
AoB
AB: thanks everything; meeting adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Brubeck followup with Anne re the Exception
thread [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
[NEW] ACTION: jacob create a changeset for bug 24923 and sent
it to the list for review [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob investigate IE behavior re bug 24971 and
add that info to the bug [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 25 March 2014 16:27:03 UTC