- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:25:36 -0400
- To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the March 25 voice conference are available at the following and copied below: <http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html> WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send them to the public-pointer-events mail list before April 1. In the absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved. -Thanks, ArtB [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - Pointer Events WG Voice Conference 25 Mar 2014 [2]Agenda [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0194.html See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-irc Attendees Present Arthur_Barstow, Jacob_Rossi, Asir_Vedamuthu, Scott_Gonzalez, Cathy_Chan, Rick_Byers, Olli_Pettay, Matt_Brubeck, Doug_Schepers Regrets Sangwhan_Moon, Patrick_Lauke Chair Art Scribe Art Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]Tweak Agenda 2. [6]Bug 24923: What should happen to the mouse events if pointer event listener removes the target ... 3. [7]Bug 24971: Should got/lostpointercapture be dispatched asynchronously or synchronously 4. [8]Sub-pixel coordinate granularity 5. [9]Touch-action to SVG elements 6. [10]Exception usage 7. [11]Feedback on pointer events 8. [12]Testing: Jacob's latest commits for PR 324 needs review 9. [13]CR implementation updates 10. [14]AoB * [15]Summary of Action Items __________________________________________________________ <scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB <scribe> Scribe: Art Tweak Agenda AB: any change requests to the draft agenda [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 014JanMar/0194.html? [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0194.html? Bug 24923: What should happen to the mouse events if pointer event listener removes the target ... AB: we discussed but 24923 <[17]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24923> on March 11 <[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#it em07> and didn't reach consensus on what to do (or not do). There has been no followup in the bug or on the list since that call. [17] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24923%3E [18] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#item07%3E OP: think we should follow IE … and put that behavior in the spec RB: would be good to get details from Jacob … and he did that … now we need to spec it JR: agree we want that in the spec … not sure how I would insert this into the spec … could be better for me to create a changeset and for people to discuss that RB: sounds good <scribe> ACTION: jacob create a changeset for bug 24923 and sent it to the list for review [recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion01] <trackbot> Created ACTION-98 - Create a changeset for bug 24923 and sent it to the list for review [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-04-01]. AB: ok, thanks Jacob Bug 24971: Should got/lostpointercapture be dispatched asynchronously or synchronously AB: we discussed bug 24971 <[20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24971> on March 11 <[21]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#it em08> and didn't reach consensus on what to do (or not do). There has been no followup in the bug or on the list since that call. [20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24971%3E [21] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#item08%3E JR: I can add some info to the bug … Olli had a related Q re the order … in our imp when calll setptrcapture, we set a pending capture node [ Jacob gives details of IE impl … ] … So this is similar to what Olli says in comment #2 [ Jacob gives details about Olli's comment #4 ] OP: that gives a surprising result [ Olli gives a scenario that could result in surprising results ] JR: if get gotcapture, we guarantee you get a lostptrcapture … I agree we need to update the spec … Similar to one of Anne's comments … Need to make the spec clearer but need to make sure we all agree on the behavior for these scenarios OP: wonder if this is just a bit too complicated and just fire synch events … synch handling would make the algorithm simpler JR: we had probs with apps when we had synch firing of the events … we could say that's bad app behavior … i.e. tight loops of setting capture RB: would like to understand what the apps were trying to do in those cases JR: that would require some investigation (been a few years) SG: are storage events synch (like localStorage) JR: if there are no other synch events, we probably don't want to address this … if people have to deal with synch with click, then doing something like that could be ok OP: if multiple clicks on same target, don't have to handle all RB: so similar problem then … we could say calling setptrcapt from within the context of gotptrcapt handle isn't legal <smaug> just a sec … If I understand Olli, with click, the spec prevents that (to stop recursive issues) JR: not sure which is better <smaug> [22]http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#run-synt hetic-click-activation-steps [22] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#run-synthetic-click-activation-steps OP: I kind of like this behavior because it prevents endless loops RB: would be nice if we could say we have the same prob as click event ... I can look into this … Seems sensible to make it behave like click … I can look up the motivation for asynch and add to the bug RB: would be good to have a site that uses asynch JR: I'll check on the IE bugs that caused this behavior and add information to our bug <scribe> ACTION: Jacob investigate IE behavior re bug 24971 and add that info to the bug [recorded in [23]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion02] <trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - Investigate ie behavior re bug 24971 and add that info to the bug [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-04-01]. Sub-pixel coordinate granularity AB: Rick's March 18 e-mail <[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0190.html> was a followup to a thread he started in December 2013 [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013OctDec/0074.html. ... we discussed Rick's December e-mail during our January 7 call [26]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#ite m06 and Jacob agreed to add a related non-normative note [27]https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/62. ... however, it appears Rick's March 18 e-mail could be touching on different but related issues. [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0190.html%3E [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0074.html. [26] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/07-pointerevents-minutes.html#item06 [27] https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/62. RB: the Q about when fractional coords can be returned is an open Q … MSDN has some doc about this JR: we are consistent RB: do you do that for mouse events too? JR: yes, I believe so RB: is that causing any issues? JR: not positive (we have a CSSOM switch) RB: we are going to try to change blink to use float … and see what sites break JR: please let us know the results AB: so where are we then? RB: I would like to hear more about IE but I don't think our spec needs to change JR: yes, I agree no PE spec change needed but I can get some more info <asir> /me my connection keeps dropping today :) RESOLUTION: the group agrees there is no need to change the spec re the "Sub-pixel coordinate granularity" topic Touch-action to SVG elements AB: Jacob's March 21 e-mail <[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0191.html> was a followup to an e-mail in January from Samsung. <[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/att-0016/00-part>. ... Jacob included a proposal in his e-mail. If we agree with Jacob's proposal one way forward would be to action Jacob to create a bug, submit a changeset and then Resolve/Fix the bug; if anyone objects, they can re-open the bug. [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0191.html%3E [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/att-0016/00-part%3E. RB: thanks Jacob for the details … your proposal sounds great to me JR: you know Chrome doesn't match it, right? RB: yes, and I'll file a bug to get that fixed … (probably won't get fixed for 35 but will get a fix for 36) JR: Olli, same for FF OP: yes RB: would be nice to have an ED with this fix JR: I can do that today RB: if have a web site that is broken, that'd be helpful AB: so you'll update the spec then Jacob? JR: yes, will do RESOLUTION: the group agrees Jacob's proposal for "Touch-action to SVG elements "topic is OK Exception usage AB: Anne's March 16 followup <[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0185.html> and the original thread starts at <[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0067.html>. Matt has action-73 to followup with Anne [32]https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/73. [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0185.html%3E [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0067.html%3E. [32] https://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/73. JR: this is a compat problem for IE … I also am not convinced what we are doing is really a compat issue AB: what about Chrome and FF? RB: not sure offhand … I'd be surprised if this was a problem for us OP: I don't think this is an issue for us AB: it appears we support the current value … and we don't want to change it JR: if there was strong consensus to change that's one thing but I don't think there is … I feel like we are chasing a moving target … and only change if there is clear and convincing evidence we should change … Thus I prefer to leave the spec as is RB: I agree there doesn't appear to be strong consistency argument … so I am ok with leaving spec as is AB: DRAFT RESOLUTION: group agrees to keep the spec as is re "Exception Usage" topic OP: we could ask Anne about the stability of the decision he is pushing AB: how about Matt? MB: that action-73 is something different <mbrubeck_> [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 014JanMar/0082.html [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0082.html AB: so Matt, Olli do we want to continue to discuss this or adopt the Draft Resolution? <smaug> smaug annevk: who stable is this DOMException/Error handling stuff [34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 014JanMar/0185.html [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0185.html MB: Anne pointed to an es_discuss thread that didn't appear to have a solid conclusion <smaug> annevk smaug: it isn't … we could see if anything else has been done there in DOM and/or WebIDL … if there is no mature decision about this, I'm OK with leaving the spec as is AB: would you please followup with Anne then Matt? MB: yes, I can do that <scribe> ACTION: Brubeck followup with Anne re the Exception thread [recorded in [35]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion03] <trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Followup with anne re the exception thread [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-04-01]. SG: for Node, everything is done with codes JR: within WebApps, consensus codes is bad … because it requires centralizing … and names/strings were supposed to be better in avoiding collisions <smaug> annevk smaug: I feel somewhat strongly that new APIs should not mint new DOMException names and preferably just throw TypeError if there's no branching needs, per Allen's preference. and that if people disagree with that, they have a discussion with him AB: thanks smaug … one question is if PE is "new" API or not given there are sites that are using it JR: if there is another UC, that would be helpful <jrossi> Issue-65 has been updated (touch-action applies to:) [36]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEv ents.html#the-touch-action-css-property [36] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#the-touch-action-css-property AB: feels like we should keep this open now MB: understand the compat issues for IE JR: don't want to change the spec until there is broad agreement from the DOM/ES community … but don't want to change the spec until then MB: ok, so sounds like we don't want to change the spec now but if DOM or WebIDL spec changes before REC, we could revisit this JR: that sounds ok AB: sounds ok with me too … are we back to a resolution we agree not to change spec based on what we know now JR: yes RB: agree RESOLUTION: group agrees to keep Exception as is Feedback on pointer events AB: Anne's March 17 followup <[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0187.html>; original thread starts at <[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0069.html> [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0187.html%3E; [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0069.html%3E JR: I owe Anne a reply … most is OK … one part could be contentious re defaultActions if an event not canceled … could add more steps … but some events are marked canceleable because their mouse event counterparts are marked cancelable … no spec defines that for mouse events … So I'm not sure we can get to the level of crispness that Anne wants … I think we tried to define this in DOM 3 Events and it was hard DS: my recollection is lots of details is very hard … I tried with D3E and the feedback was mostly "not good enough" AB: so it sounds like Jacob will reply … and others should join the conversation Testing: Jacob's latest commits for PR 324 needs review AB: Jacob's e-mail <[39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ 2014JanMar/0192.html> says PR 324 has been updated. Rick and Cathy agreed to review the tests they have previously reviewed. ... I don't recall what the means specifically and if that means we also need reviews from others. [39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0192.html%3E <smaug> and I lost connection or something <smaug> yeah, it is 18:00, I guess Zakim kicked me out MB: I split them up RB: I think 1-5 are mine … not sure who reviewed 6-8 JR: I think the wiki needs some updating … f.ex. there are some file name updates <mbrubeck_> Previously: [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/45 [40] http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/actions/45 <Cathy> [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2 013OctDec/0029.html [41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2013OctDec/0029.html AB: thanks Matt … this means review needs to be done by: Rick, Cathy, Art and Matt <scott_gonzalez> [42]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/324/files?w= 1 will show the diff without whitespace changes. [42] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/324/files?w=1 RB: were any new files added Jacob? <scott_gonzalez> You should be able to add `?w=1` to any diff URL. JR: yes, I think so … check the diff <scott_gonzalez> For example, [43]https://github.com/InternetExplorer/web-platform-tests/comm it/e872664c81fbcc9d3c53ff5e171ccf48443d066c?w=1 is just the most recent commit without whitespace chages. [43] https://github.com/InternetExplorer/web-platform-tests/commit/e872664c81fbcc9d3c53ff5e171ccf48443d066c?w=1 RB: I'll look at anything with "capture" JR: could you please check if there are any files without a Reviewer? MB: yes, I'll do that AB: ok, thanks AV: how do we close on the test cases? AB: the review should be done by someone that didn't write the tests … all comments should be submitted to GH JR: I can merge the request after all comments are addressed AB: everyone please review your set of tests and put your reveiw comments on GH JR: if there are big issues, they should be added as GH Issues AB: that makes sense to me CR implementation updates AB: any new info re implementations? [ None ] AoB AB: thanks everything; meeting adjourned Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: Brubeck followup with Anne re the Exception thread [recorded in [44]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion03] [NEW] ACTION: jacob create a changeset for bug 24923 and sent it to the list for review [recorded in [45]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion01] [NEW] ACTION: Jacob investigate IE behavior re bug 24971 and add that info to the bug [recorded in [46]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/25-pointerevents-minutes.html#act ion02] [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 25 March 2014 16:27:03 UTC