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Draft minutes: 14 February 2014 call

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:59:44 -0500
Message-ID: <52FA5700.2040404@nokia.com>
To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the February 11 voice conference are available at 
the following and copied below:

<http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html>

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send 
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before February 18. In the 
absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.

-Thanks, ArtB

[1]W3C

[1] http://www.w3.org/

- DRAFT -

Pointer Events Call

11 Feb 2014

See also: [2]IRC log

[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc

Attendees

Present
Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Jacob_Rossi, Matt_Brubeck,
Olli_Pettay, Asir_Vedamuthu

Regrets
Rick_Byers, Cathy_Chan, Scott_Gonzαlez, Patrick_Lauke

Chair
ArtB

Scribe
ArtB

Contents

* [3]Topics
1. [4]Agree on agenda
2. [5]adding an informative note re touch events?
3. [6]ACTION-68: Proposed text for "contextmenu issue"
4. [7]Exception usage
5. [8]Focus/blur?
6. [9]Pointer cancel event dispatching
7. [10]Testing status
8. [11]CR implementation updates
9. [12]AoB
* [13]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________

<patrick_h_lauke> belated regrets from me, sorry. something
came up just in the last few minutes (must dash off early to
pick up little one from childminder now)

Agree on agenda

<patrick_h_lauke> i WAS intending to take part, had it not been
for this last second change of plan. sorry

AB: I posted a draft agenda on February 11
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0073.html. We have a few regrets so we may need to
factor that in for some discussions. Other than that, are there
any change requests?

[14] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0073.html.

adding an informative note re touch events?

AB: Patrick started this thread on January 31
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0064.html.
... Rick replied
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0065.html and I did too, suggesting Patrick create a
concrete proposal we can discuss.
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0066.html
... any comments?
... I'll create an action for Patrick

[15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0064.html.
[16] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0065.html
[17] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0066.html

<scribe> ACTION: Patrick create a proposal re informative note
re PointerEvent and TouchEvent compatibility. [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Create a proposal re informative
note re pointerevent and touchevent compatibility. [on Patrick
Lauke - due 2014-02-18].

<smaug> yup

ACTION-68: Proposed text for "contextmenu issue"

AB: Rick proposed text for Action-68 on January 28;
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0061.html.
... any comments or can we approve Rick's proposal "as is"?

[19] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0061.html.

JR: works for me

AB: anyone else?

MB: looks ok

RESOLUTION: group agrees with the text Rick proposed re
Action-68

<scribe> ACTION: Jacob update spec to reflect 11-Feb-2014
discussion of Action-68 [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Update spec to reflect
11-feb-2014 discussion of action-68 [on Jacob Rossi - due
2014-02-18].

Exception usage

AB: Anne raised this issue on February 3;
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0067.html. Anne recommends the PE spec use the
JavaScript built-in RangeError rather than DOMException with a
new name of "InvalidPointerId".
... so far, no one has replied. There is a consistency argument
here but this change would also presumably break
implementations so there is also a cost to consider.

[21] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0067.html.

JR: I could be out of date on the latest from DOM and Web IDL

… I don't have any data re an impact of the proposed change

… Not sure RangeError is correct

… If an invalid id is used, not really a range error per se

… more of a state error

… I need to think about this some more

OP: agree we need something other Range

JR: what do you think about what's in the spec now Olli?

… do you think that should change?

OP: if the plan is to not add new DOM Exception and to use
builit in we shold consider it

MB: I don't see any other builtin exceptions that are a good
match

… based on looking at ES spec

… Think we should reply to Anne

JR: latest info I saw was from Cameron on Jan 28

<jrossi>
[22]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21740

[22] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21740

… don't want to move to something just because it is "trendy"

MB: need to understand what changes are coming

DS: and we need to understand the level of consensus for the
proposed change

<scribe> ACTION: Matt reply to Anne's "Exception usage" e-mail
of Feb 3 [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Reply to anne's "exception
usage" e-mail of feb 3 [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-02-18].

MB: I think we need some more data

<mbrubeck> ECMA-262 defines Error, EvalError, RangeError,
ReferenceError, SyntaxError, TypeError and URIError.

AB: encourage others to followup too
... that's a short list and I agree, not clear better match

Topic Feedback on pointer events

AB: Anne submitted 8 additional comments from him and Boris on
February 3
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0069.html.
... there's an implicit Action for everyone to review the
comments and reply accordingly. We can discuss some set of the
comments now or defer discussion on the list.

[24] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0069.html.

JR: some are easy, along the line of "spec mechanics"

… #5 appears to just be a typo

… since there is no default action to be canceled

… #1, think I just need to add a reference

MB: #6 is tricky since we don't define default behavior

… touches on touch-action algorithm

… we might need to change our language to the proposed form

JR: my proposal is for me to make changes for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in
a single ED update

… and I'll send that changeset to the list

<scribe> ACTION: Jacob propose changes for 1-5 of Anne's e-mail
of Feb 3 [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Propose changes for 1-5 of
anne's e-mail of feb 3 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18].

MB: what about the other items?

JR: discuss on the list

MB: I can take an action re #6

… think #7 is a "ship has sailed" deal

… Need to think more about #8

OP: not clear about #7 and the devices not tied to a screen

… not clear its better than Navigator

JR: agree; I have a device like that

MB: not sure we can make a change at this point

<scribe> ACTION: Matt reply to #6 of Anne's Feb 3 comments
[recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Reply to #6 of anne's feb 3
comments [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-02-18].

<scribe> ACTION: olli reply to #7 of Anne's Feb 3 comments
[recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Reply to #7 of anne's feb 3
comments [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-02-18].

MB: not sure what about #8

JR: we don't define overall dispatch model in PE spec

… we just describe behavior for each event

… not sure where we would define what is proposed

<scribe> ACTION: jacob reply to #8 of Anne's Feb 3 e-mail
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Reply to #8 of anne's feb 3
e-mail [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18].

AB: it's good to get the feedback

Focus/blur?

AB: Patrick started this thread on February 4
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0071.html
... any comments?

[29] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0071.html

OP: think the focus/blur handling should continue to be defined
in HTML spec

… not sure PE spec can say anything useful about this

JR: agree with that

<scribe> ACTION: olli reply to Patrick's Focus/blur? e-mail of
Feb 4 [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Reply to patrick's focus/blur?
e-mail of feb 4 [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-02-18].

Pointer cancel event dispatching

AB: this thread was started Nikolay Lebedev on February 4
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
014JanMar/0072.html.
... would someone please followup?

[31] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0072.html.

MB: Nick is part of MS Open Tech and he is implementing PE in
Gecko

AV: I think this is just an e-mail seeking clarification

JR: yes agree

… I can reply with "yes, that's OK"

<scribe> ACTION: Jacob reply to Nikolay's e-mail of Feb 4 re
"Pointer cancel event dispatching" [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-77 - Reply to nikolay's e-mail of feb
4 re "pointer cancel event dispatching" [on Jacob Rossi - due
2014-02-18].

Testing status

AB: any new testing status since we discussed testing during
our last call
[33]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#ite
m10?
... I think we are waiting for some colleagues of Jacob

[33] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#item10?

<asir> who is automated tester?

JR: I think some internal changes will make this easier and we
can expect an update soon

AB: that would be great

DS: in case people didn't notice, Opera recently released their
Presto tests [to Github]

… I don't know if they included anything useful for us

<smaug> asir: that AutomatedTester who just left this channel
is from Mozilla, I think

AB: my recollection is Sangwhan reported they would not
backport PE to Presto and would use Blink's impl moving forward

DS: yes, that might be correct

<asir> ok

CR implementation updates

AB: any new testing status since we discussed implementation
during our last call
[34]http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#ite
m11?

[34] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#item11?

MB: we are still reviewing patches

OP: patches are landing `all the time`

AV: do you mean patches from Oleg?

MB: yes, patches from Oleg and Nikolay

DS: wasn't there some WebKit news?

<mbrubeck> [35]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105463

[35] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105463

<mbrubeck> was resolved WONTFIX

AoB

AB: anything else for today?

DS: during the 2nd week of April, there is a "mini TPAC" by
eBay in San Jose

… does this group want to try to meet there?

AB: I'll be there

DS: HTMLWG and WebAppsWG will be there

AV: will we have agenda items to discuss?

JR: we should be done by then

AB: I don't think we'll have an urgent need to meet then

DS: ok, I just wanted to let people know

AB: any other topics for today?
... please address your open Actions
... meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Jacob propose changes for 1-5 of Anne's e-mail of
Feb 3 [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
[NEW] ACTION: jacob reply to #8 of Anne's Feb 3 e-mail
[recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion07]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob reply to Nikolay's e-mail of Feb 4 re
"Pointer cancel event dispatching" [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion09]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob update spec to reflect 11-Feb-2014
discussion of Action-68 [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
[NEW] ACTION: Matt reply to #6 of Anne's Feb 3 comments
[recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion05]
[NEW] ACTION: Matt reply to Anne's "Exception usage" e-mail of
Feb 3 [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
[NEW] ACTION: olli reply to #7 of Anne's Feb 3 comments
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion06]
[NEW] ACTION: olli reply to Patrick's Focus/blur? e-mail of Feb
4 [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion08]
[NEW] ACTION: Patrick create a proposal re informative note re
PointerEvent and TouchEvent compatibility. [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]

[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 11 February 2014 17:00:34 UTC

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