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Draft Minutes: 11 December 2012

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:30:12 +0200
Message-ID: <50C9F484.6090707@nokia.com>
To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the December 11 voice conference are available at 
<http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-pointerevents-minutes.html> and copied below.

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send 
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before December 18 - the 
date of the next call. In the absence of any changes, these minutes will 
be considered approved.

Thanks to Jacob for Scribing this meeting.

-ArtB


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

               Pointer Events Working Group Teleconference

11 Dec 2012

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-pointerevents-irc

Attendees

    Present
           +1.770.402.aaaa, [Microsoft], Doug_Schepers,
           +1.717.578.aabb, scott_gonzalez, jrossi, rbyers,
           Olli_Pettay, jrossi2

    Regrets
    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           jrossi2

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Agenda Bashing
          2. [5]Bug 20219
          3. [6]bug 20281
          4. [7]20311 Clarify touch-action is only looked at during
             pointerdown
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2012

    <smaug> uh

    <smaug> oops

    <smaug> in a minute

    <scribe> scribeNick:jrossi2

Agenda Bashing

    <smaug> Zakim: nick smaug is Olli_Pettay

    <shepazu>
    [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/20
    12OctDec/0106.html

       [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0106.html

Bug 20219

    [10]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20219

      [10] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20219

    <shepazu> Issue-20219?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-20219 does not exist

    <smaug>
    [11]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20219

      [11] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20219

    jrossi: 2 issues, one is should the pointerType be a string
    instead of constants?
    ... for this, allows cleaner syntax
    ... pointerType=="touch"
    ... as opposed to event.pointerType==event.POINTER_TYPE_TOUCH
    ... but main reason is extensibility

    jrossi2: what's the right spec text for UA extensibility?
    ... e.g. a UA supports a pointing device that's not touch, pen,
    mosue

    rbyers: is there a precedent for defining extensibility?

    jrossi2: D3Events says prefix events

    shepazu: a bit of advice is at least useful, but let's save the
    conversation for the list

    rbyers: if D3Events has existing text, just lean on that

    1) should be a string

    shepazu: separate into 2 issues

    <smaug>
    [12]http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-xmlhttprequest

      [12] http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-xmlhttprequest

    smaug: lately, specs have been using string enums

    jrossi: yeah, there's an element to this that's current spec
    convention

    shepazu: proposed resolution to part 1 of the issue, I propose
    it be a string

    rbyers: answer is clearly a string

    RESOLUTION: Change pointerType property to String

    shepazu: second issue, rather than discuss, let's save it for
    the list

    jrossi: sounds good

    <scribe> ACTION: jrossi to send proposal for extensible text to
    list [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion01]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find jrossi. You can review and
    register nicknames at
    <[14]http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/users>.

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/users%3E.

    smaug: one clarification, should be enumerated string
    possibilities in spec that UAs can add to if they want

    rbyers: agree, that provides best clarity

    jrossi2: agreed

    <rbyers_> smaug pointed to this specific example:
    [15]http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-xmlhttprequest

      [15] http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-xmlhttprequest

    jrossi2: well, i'd want to let authors create synthetic event's
    with arbitrary string for pointerType
    ... for polyfils

    smaug: then it probably needs to just be a plain string

    jrossi2: how about a table that just says normative values for
    touch, pen, mouse?

    rbyers: that seems fine

    smaug: yes

bug 20281

    [16]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20218

      [16] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20218

    jrossi: this is practically a bug

    <shepazu> "Contact geometry should be in CSS pixels not device
    pixels"

    <rbyers_> This summary of different co-ordinate spaces may be
    helpful for discussion:
    [17]http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/ScalesAndZooms

      [17] http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/ScalesAndZooms

    jrossi: suggest this be in document pixels

    rbyers: definitely not device pixels, not sure about zoom
    ... logical pixels, devicePixels * devicePixelRatio

    jrossi: there's 2 use cases
    ... 1- knowing how big the finger is

    jrossi2: 2- seeing how the element compares to the layout of
    the page

    rbyers: 2 seems the most likely

    jrossi2: IE10 provides zoom factor, which would allow
    conversion

    jrossi: agree 2 is most common
    ... proposed resolution is to make width/height be CSS document
    pixels, adjusted for zoom

    shepazu: talked about issue of transforms in D3Events
    ... authors get back odd coord sys

    jrossi2: yes, but I think optical zoom isn't as much as of
    problem because the elements don't actually change coord sys

    rbyers: is this going to be a compat issue?

    jrossi2: concerned in general about dramatically changing
    things, but not too much for this particular property

    <smaug> (walled gardens shouldn't be considered when designing
    APIs for the Web. But of course it is better to try to achieve
    compatibility with all the systems.)

    jrossi: proposed resolution is to make width/height be CSS
    document pixels, adjusted for zoom

    <rbyers_> agreed

    <asir> looks right

    RESOLUTION: make width/height be CSS document pixels, adjusted
    for zoom

20311 Clarify touch-action is only looked at during pointerdown

    jrossi: need to clarify this so that implementations can
    implement multi-threaded scrolling

    rbyers: agree, we should clarify

    jrossi: proposed change is that touch-action is checked prior
    to firing pointerdown and then that value is used for the
    lifetime of that pointer

    <rbyers_> agreed

    RESOLUTION: clarify touch-action is checked prior to firing
    pointerdown and then that value is used for the lifetime of
    that pointer

    <smaug> hmm

    <smaug> back

    <asir> the bridge dropped me

    <asir> and am unable to dial back in

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: jrossi to send proposal for extensible text to
    list [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/11-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
    ion01]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 13 December 2012 15:30:33 UTC

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