Re: Formal Semantics

Hi!

> Go ahead without me. I will not be available until the 11th, and there
> is no reason to wait for me. I can always comment on the outcome using
> the usual channels…

I think it makes more sense to just postpone the call such that all of 
us can participate. After the 11th, when are you available again Ivan?

br simon

Am 2017-03-31 10:07, schrieb Ivan Herman:
>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 09:00, Víctor Rodríguez Doncel 
>> <vrodriguez@fi.upm.es> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I see we cannot set a call with more than two participants.
>> Shall we start speak speaking in a first call Simon and I and then in 
>> a second call with Ivan?
>> Ivan when are you available?
>> 
> 
> Go ahead without me. I will not be available until the 11th, and there
> is no reason to wait for me. I can always comment on the outcome using
> the usual channels…
> 
> Ivan
> 
> 
>> Víctor
>> 
>> 
>> El 27/03/2017 a las 18:32, Víctor Rodríguez Doncel escribió:
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> I have created a doodle poll to see when can we meet to discuss the 
>>> scope and ambition of the formal semantics note. Link:
>>> https://beta.doodle.com/poll/ricy6h4iha3b5s4z
>>> 
>>> I have set a fixed time (12.30 GMT) and several different days trying 
>>> to concile the different constraints you have emailed already.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Víctor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> El 27/03/2017 a las 15:35, Phil Archer escribió:
>>>> As ever, the minutes of today's meeting are at 
>>>> https://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes with a text snapshot 
>>>> below. Thanks Michael for scribing.
>>>> 
>>>> Main topic today was Sabrina's new use case of modelling the GDPR 
>>>> using a profile of ODRL.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
>>>> 
>>>> 27 March 2017
>>>> 
>>>>   [2]Agenda [3]IRC log
>>>> 
>>>>      [2] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170327
>>>>      [3] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-irc
>>>> 
>>>> Attendees
>>>> 
>>>>   Present
>>>>          benws, benws110, ivan, michaelS, phila, renato, Sabrina,
>>>>          Serena, smyles, victor
>>>> 
>>>>   Regrets
>>>>          Brian, Caroline, Simon
>>>> 
>>>>   Chair
>>>>          Ben
>>>> 
>>>>   Scribe
>>>>          michaelS
>>>> 
>>>> Contents
>>>> 
>>>>     * [4]Meeting Minutes
>>>>         1. [5]Last week's minutes
>>>>         2. [6]New Use Case
>>>>         3. [7]Deliverables
>>>>         4. [8]best practices
>>>>         5. [9]open Actions
>>>>         6. [10]London F2F
>>>>     * [11]Summary of Action Items
>>>>     * [12]Summary of Resolutions
>>>> 
>>>> Meeting Minutes
>>>> 
>>>>   <benws110> nick benws
>>>> 
>>>>   <victor> hi all
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> hi victor
>>>> 
>>>>   scribe michaelS
>>>> 
>>>> Last week's minutes
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: anybody want to raise an issue with last week's minutes
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> [NOTUC]
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> [13]Last week's minutes
>>>> 
>>>>     [13] https://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-poe-minutes.html
>>>> 
>>>>   Resolved: last week's minutes approved
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> [14]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/
>>>>   Use_Cases#POE.UC.37_Representing_regulations_using_ODRL
>>>> 
>>>>     [14] 
>>>> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Use_Cases#POE.UC.37_Representing_regulations_using_ODRL
>>>> 
>>>> New Use Case
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: introduced the Use Case
>>>>   … it models the EU General Data Protection Regulation
>>>>   … it needs to cover that at a generic level but also in details
>>>>   … Article 12 added as an example
>>>>   … this article shows the important use of references to other
>>>>   articles
>>>>   … the numbering of the articles has at least two levels
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: any comments on that so far?
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: does this requirement belong to a profile or to the
>>>>   general ODRL model?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: this is a decision by this group
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: what does "refer to another article" mean?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: that are dependencies - look at Article 12. This may
>>>>   transform to many duties.
>>>>   … to check if Article 12 is fullfilled the fulfillment of other
>>>>   articles is required
>>>> 
>>>>   phila: GDPR is very important it would be a big PR win if ODRL
>>>>   could show that it can cover it.
>>>>   … key question: is ODRL is a good tool for that purpose.
>>>>   Sabrina do you feel that?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: ODRL is not a bad fit. We need to specify obligations
>>>>   and constraints
>>>>   … There is work on taxonomies by other parties but less
>>>>   fitting.
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: we could promote this as a profile. This would serve to
>>>>   explain how to create a profile
>>>>   … and this profile could be shown to a wide audience.
>>>>   … the relationships between the constraints and duties is
>>>>   demandingö
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: we have dependencies between the duties, we have
>>>>   constraints on duties, actions and parties
>>>>   … supported to create a profile for that.
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: to show that we could express regulations and licences
>>>>   by the same language would be fine
>>>> 
>>>>   phil
>>>> 
>>>>   phila: supported using ODRL for this purpose
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: we are basically defining obligiations = duties =
>>>>   complying with the regulations
>>>>   … if we run into problems we will come back to this group
>>>>   … when it comes to constraints: there are discretational ones
>>>> 
>>>>   smyles: suggested to model optional constraints as permissions
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: that's not exactly the intention of the GDPR
>>>>   … there are statements like a recommendation - and we don't
>>>>   want to omit them
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: is thinking what this could look like in code:
>>>>   leftOperand say you may or may not use an icon
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: need for a discretional constraint: it would be good
>>>>   to meet this constraint but it doesn't stop the policy
>>>>   … if it is not met
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: for her and Simon some constraints a bit fuzzy, needs
>>>>   deeper reviews
>>>> 
>>>>   smyles: we may add a concept of recommendation = if you can,
>>>>   you should do that
>>>>   … there could be levels of recommendation: strongly recommended
>>>>   ... and more
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: will review this suggestion
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> [15]https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119
>>>> 
>>>>     [15] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",
>>>>   "SHALL
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as
>>>>   described in
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> RFC 2119.
>>>> 
>>>>   phila: RFC2119 is a standard specifying things like that -
>>>>   could help
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: Dispensation = something is required, but there is a
>>>>   dispensation under specific condiditions.
>>>>   … and some articles say "you are not allowed" others say
>>>>   "unless party X allows that"
>>>> 
>>>>   <victor> Dispensation: a : an exemption from a law or from an
>>>>   impediment, vow, or oath may be granted a dispensation from the
>>>>   rule b : a formal authorization requested a dispensation to
>>>>   form another lodge
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: in fact: an exception on an exception
>>>>   … may also be used
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: went over some more details of transforming DGPR into
>>>>   ODRL
>>>> 
>>>>   victor: thinks like that can be expressed by ODRL.
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: we are looking not only at GDPR but also legal
>>>>   regulations in general - is the existing ODRL data model work
>>>>   for us
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: what are "features"
>>>> 
>>>>   victor: we could think about synonyms for hardwired constraints
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: two more things: "Feature" = article 12 has various
>>>>   obligations, some are well defined, some don't stand on their
>>>>   own.
>>>>   … we are looking at conjunctions and disjunctions in this
>>>>   context
>>>>   … transparency is the conjunction of all of them - we call them
>>>>   Features at the moment
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: we need additional constraints on the asset - they
>>>>   will span across multiple duties
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: ODRL scope could work
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: agreed
>>>>   … we have an issue with the type of processing - e.g. how
>>>>   personal data may be used for marketing
>>>> 
>>>>   smyles: the purpose is to define the nature of a party - right?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: yes, depending on who you are rules may apply
>>>> 
>>>>   smyles: why not to split up in constraints for group A and
>>>>   group B of persons
>>>> 
>>>>   smyles: wondered if inheritance could be used
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: the controllers for different purposes are different
>>>>   … we look at what's there and then will come back to this group
>>>>   … the Wiki space could be used for discussions
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: timeline?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: there are different groups of work: e.g. transforming
>>>>   the article and the sub-points - but that's not very usable.
>>>>   … in a next step obligations have to be pulled out of the
>>>>   articles - and that's a big work, will take months.
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: does this timeline align with the ODRL timeline?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: yes.
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: do we need a new policy type "regulation"?
>>>> 
>>>>   Sabrina: yes
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: supported to use Wikipages for working on the
>>>>   transformation
>>>> 
>>>> Deliverables
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> [16]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
>>>> 
>>>>     [16] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: went over [17]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/
>>>>   Deliverables
>>>> 
>>>>     [17] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> [18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
>>>>   public-poe-comments/2017Mar/0012.html
>>>> 
>>>>     [18] 
>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poe-comments/2017Mar/0012.html
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: we got a reply from EDRLabs
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> [19]https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/118
>>>> 
>>>>     [19] https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/118
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: raised some concerns regarding periods
>>>>   … this needs an update of the definitions of date/time and
>>>>   period constraints
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: re Horizontal reviews:
>>>>   … any news from Brian?
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: has sent a reminder
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: reviews seem to be on track
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: refered to a proposoal of Victor to hold a special
>>>>   meeting
>>>>   … = a call
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: asked Victor to launch a Doodgle survey for finding date
>>>>   and time
>>>> 
>>>> best practices
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: tried to reach out to James from Catapult, but the email
>>>>   did not work
>>>> 
>>>> open Actions
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: only 3 on the issue tracker
>>>> 
>>>>   <phila> s/RESOLVED: last week's minutes approved//
>>>> 
>>>>   <renato> [20]https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/114
>>>> 
>>>>     [20] https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/114
>>>> 
>>>> London F2F
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: open issue is providing hotel rooms at TR rates - but
>>>>   Sabrina may have an alternative
>>>> 
>>>>   victor: would appreciate to have times for the agenda items
>>>> 
>>>>   bens: starting time 10am - ok?
>>>> 
>>>>   renato: agenda will be based on requests from group members and
>>>>   currently ongoing work
>>>> 
>>>>   <ivan> will there be possibiltiies for dial in?
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: suggested 5:30pm as closing time
>>>> 
>>>>   <ivan> thanks
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: it will be possible to dial in too
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: AOB?
>>>> 
>>>>   benws: none was raised - bye
>>>> 
>>>> Summary of Action Items
>>>> 
>>>> Summary of Resolutions
>>>> 
>>>>    1. [21]last week's minutes approved
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel
>> D3205 - Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>> ETS de Ingenieros Informáticos
>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>> 
>> Campus de Montegancedo s/n
>> Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, Spain
>> Tel. (+34) 91336 3753
>> Skype: vroddon3
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
---
DDipl.-Ing. Simon Steyskal
Institute for Information Business, WU Vienna

www: http://www.steyskal.info/  twitter: @simonsteys

Received on Friday, 31 March 2017 09:27:49 UTC