Re: Formal Semantics

> On 31 Mar 2017, at 09:00, Víctor Rodríguez Doncel <vrodriguez@fi.upm.es> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I see we cannot set a call with more than two participants.
> Shall we start speak speaking in a first call Simon and I and then in a second call with Ivan?
> Ivan when are you available?
> 

Go ahead without me. I will not be available until the 11th, and there is no reason to wait for me. I can always comment on the outcome using the usual channels…

Ivan


> Víctor
> 
> 
> El 27/03/2017 a las 18:32, Víctor Rodríguez Doncel escribió:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I have created a doodle poll to see when can we meet to discuss the scope and ambition of the formal semantics note. Link:
>> https://beta.doodle.com/poll/ricy6h4iha3b5s4z
>> 
>> I have set a fixed time (12.30 GMT) and several different days trying to concile the different constraints you have emailed already.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Víctor
>> 
>> 
>> El 27/03/2017 a las 15:35, Phil Archer escribió:
>>> As ever, the minutes of today's meeting are at https://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-minutes with a text snapshot below. Thanks Michael for scribing.
>>> 
>>> Main topic today was Sabrina's new use case of modelling the GDPR using a profile of ODRL.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
>>> 
>>> 27 March 2017
>>> 
>>>   [2]Agenda [3]IRC log
>>> 
>>>      [2] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170327
>>>      [3] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/27-poe-irc
>>> 
>>> Attendees
>>> 
>>>   Present
>>>          benws, benws110, ivan, michaelS, phila, renato, Sabrina,
>>>          Serena, smyles, victor
>>> 
>>>   Regrets
>>>          Brian, Caroline, Simon
>>> 
>>>   Chair
>>>          Ben
>>> 
>>>   Scribe
>>>          michaelS
>>> 
>>> Contents
>>> 
>>>     * [4]Meeting Minutes
>>>         1. [5]Last week's minutes
>>>         2. [6]New Use Case
>>>         3. [7]Deliverables
>>>         4. [8]best practices
>>>         5. [9]open Actions
>>>         6. [10]London F2F
>>>     * [11]Summary of Action Items
>>>     * [12]Summary of Resolutions
>>> 
>>> Meeting Minutes
>>> 
>>>   <benws110> nick benws
>>> 
>>>   <victor> hi all
>>> 
>>>   <renato> hi victor
>>> 
>>>   scribe michaelS
>>> 
>>> Last week's minutes
>>> 
>>>   benws: anybody want to raise an issue with last week's minutes
>>> 
>>>   <phila> [NOTUC]
>>> 
>>>   <phila> [13]Last week's minutes
>>> 
>>>     [13] https://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-poe-minutes.html
>>> 
>>>   Resolved: last week's minutes approved
>>> 
>>>   <renato> [14]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/
>>>   Use_Cases#POE.UC.37_Representing_regulations_using_ODRL
>>> 
>>>     [14] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Use_Cases#POE.UC.37_Representing_regulations_using_ODRL
>>> 
>>> New Use Case
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: introduced the Use Case
>>>   … it models the EU General Data Protection Regulation
>>>   … it needs to cover that at a generic level but also in details
>>>   … Article 12 added as an example
>>>   … this article shows the important use of references to other
>>>   articles
>>>   … the numbering of the articles has at least two levels
>>> 
>>>   benws: any comments on that so far?
>>> 
>>>   benws: does this requirement belong to a profile or to the
>>>   general ODRL model?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: this is a decision by this group
>>> 
>>>   renato: what does "refer to another article" mean?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: that are dependencies - look at Article 12. This may
>>>   transform to many duties.
>>>   … to check if Article 12 is fullfilled the fulfillment of other
>>>   articles is required
>>> 
>>>   phila: GDPR is very important it would be a big PR win if ODRL
>>>   could show that it can cover it.
>>>   … key question: is ODRL is a good tool for that purpose.
>>>   Sabrina do you feel that?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: ODRL is not a bad fit. We need to specify obligations
>>>   and constraints
>>>   … There is work on taxonomies by other parties but less
>>>   fitting.
>>> 
>>>   renato: we could promote this as a profile. This would serve to
>>>   explain how to create a profile
>>>   … and this profile could be shown to a wide audience.
>>>   … the relationships between the constraints and duties is
>>>   demandingö
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: we have dependencies between the duties, we have
>>>   constraints on duties, actions and parties
>>>   … supported to create a profile for that.
>>> 
>>>   benws: to show that we could express regulations and licences
>>>   by the same language would be fine
>>> 
>>>   phil
>>> 
>>>   phila: supported using ODRL for this purpose
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: we are basically defining obligiations = duties =
>>>   complying with the regulations
>>>   … if we run into problems we will come back to this group
>>>   … when it comes to constraints: there are discretational ones
>>> 
>>>   smyles: suggested to model optional constraints as permissions
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: that's not exactly the intention of the GDPR
>>>   … there are statements like a recommendation - and we don't
>>>   want to omit them
>>> 
>>>   renato: is thinking what this could look like in code:
>>>   leftOperand say you may or may not use an icon
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: need for a discretional constraint: it would be good
>>>   to meet this constraint but it doesn't stop the policy
>>>   … if it is not met
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: for her and Simon some constraints a bit fuzzy, needs
>>>   deeper reviews
>>> 
>>>   smyles: we may add a concept of recommendation = if you can,
>>>   you should do that
>>>   … there could be levels of recommendation: strongly recommended
>>>   ... and more
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: will review this suggestion
>>> 
>>>   <renato> [15]https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119
>>> 
>>>     [15] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119
>>> 
>>>   <phila> The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",
>>>   "SHALL
>>> 
>>>   <phila> NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and
>>> 
>>>   <phila> "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as
>>>   described in
>>> 
>>>   <phila> RFC 2119.
>>> 
>>>   phila: RFC2119 is a standard specifying things like that -
>>>   could help
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: Dispensation = something is required, but there is a
>>>   dispensation under specific condiditions.
>>>   … and some articles say "you are not allowed" others say
>>>   "unless party X allows that"
>>> 
>>>   <victor> Dispensation: a : an exemption from a law or from an
>>>   impediment, vow, or oath may be granted a dispensation from the
>>>   rule b : a formal authorization requested a dispensation to
>>>   form another lodge
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: in fact: an exception on an exception
>>>   … may also be used
>>> 
>>>   renato: went over some more details of transforming DGPR into
>>>   ODRL
>>> 
>>>   victor: thinks like that can be expressed by ODRL.
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: we are looking not only at GDPR but also legal
>>>   regulations in general - is the existing ODRL data model work
>>>   for us
>>> 
>>>   benws: what are "features"
>>> 
>>>   victor: we could think about synonyms for hardwired constraints
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: two more things: "Feature" = article 12 has various
>>>   obligations, some are well defined, some don't stand on their
>>>   own.
>>>   … we are looking at conjunctions and disjunctions in this
>>>   context
>>>   … transparency is the conjunction of all of them - we call them
>>>   Features at the moment
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: we need additional constraints on the asset - they
>>>   will span across multiple duties
>>> 
>>>   renato: ODRL scope could work
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: agreed
>>>   … we have an issue with the type of processing - e.g. how
>>>   personal data may be used for marketing
>>> 
>>>   smyles: the purpose is to define the nature of a party - right?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: yes, depending on who you are rules may apply
>>> 
>>>   smyles: why not to split up in constraints for group A and
>>>   group B of persons
>>> 
>>>   smyles: wondered if inheritance could be used
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: the controllers for different purposes are different
>>>   … we look at what's there and then will come back to this group
>>>   … the Wiki space could be used for discussions
>>> 
>>>   benws: timeline?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: there are different groups of work: e.g. transforming
>>>   the article and the sub-points - but that's not very usable.
>>>   … in a next step obligations have to be pulled out of the
>>>   articles - and that's a big work, will take months.
>>> 
>>>   benws: does this timeline align with the ODRL timeline?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: yes.
>>> 
>>>   renato: do we need a new policy type "regulation"?
>>> 
>>>   Sabrina: yes
>>> 
>>>   benws: supported to use Wikipages for working on the
>>>   transformation
>>> 
>>> Deliverables
>>> 
>>>   <renato> [16]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
>>> 
>>>     [16] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
>>> 
>>>   renato: went over [17]https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/
>>>   Deliverables
>>> 
>>>     [17] https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables
>>> 
>>>   <renato> [18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
>>>   public-poe-comments/2017Mar/0012.html
>>> 
>>>     [18] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poe-comments/2017Mar/0012.html
>>> 
>>>   renato: we got a reply from EDRLabs
>>> 
>>>   <renato> [19]https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/118
>>> 
>>>     [19] https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/118
>>> 
>>>   renato: raised some concerns regarding periods
>>>   … this needs an update of the definitions of date/time and
>>>   period constraints
>>> 
>>>   renato: re Horizontal reviews:
>>>   … any news from Brian?
>>> 
>>>   benws: has sent a reminder
>>> 
>>>   renato: reviews seem to be on track
>>> 
>>>   benws: refered to a proposoal of Victor to hold a special
>>>   meeting
>>>   … = a call
>>> 
>>>   benws: asked Victor to launch a Doodgle survey for finding date
>>>   and time
>>> 
>>> best practices
>>> 
>>>   benws: tried to reach out to James from Catapult, but the email
>>>   did not work
>>> 
>>> open Actions
>>> 
>>>   benws: only 3 on the issue tracker
>>> 
>>>   <phila> s/RESOLVED: last week's minutes approved//
>>> 
>>>   <renato> [20]https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/114
>>> 
>>>     [20] https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/114
>>> 
>>> London F2F
>>> 
>>>   benws: open issue is providing hotel rooms at TR rates - but
>>>   Sabrina may have an alternative
>>> 
>>>   victor: would appreciate to have times for the agenda items
>>> 
>>>   bens: starting time 10am - ok?
>>> 
>>>   renato: agenda will be based on requests from group members and
>>>   currently ongoing work
>>> 
>>>   <ivan> will there be possibiltiies for dial in?
>>> 
>>>   benws: suggested 5:30pm as closing time
>>> 
>>>   <ivan> thanks
>>> 
>>>   benws: it will be possible to dial in too
>>> 
>>>   benws: AOB?
>>> 
>>>   benws: none was raised - bye
>>> 
>>> Summary of Action Items
>>> 
>>> Summary of Resolutions
>>> 
>>>    1. [21]last week's minutes approved
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel
> D3205 - Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
> ETS de Ingenieros Informáticos
> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
> 
> Campus de Montegancedo s/n
> Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, Spain
> Tel. (+34) 91336 3753
> Skype: vroddon3
> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C 
Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704

Received on Friday, 31 March 2017 08:07:18 UTC