- From: Stephan Packard <Stephan.Packard@medienkultur.uni-freiburg.de>
- Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:25:34 +0200
- To: Rolf Kailuweit <rolf.kailuweit@romanistik.uni-freiburg.de>
- CC: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>, Georg Groh <grohg@in.tum.de>, public-philoweb@w3.org
Dear all, me too! Thanks for the interesting discussion, Henry. I hope I'll get around to writing down a few paragraphs later this week. Next Monday will be difficult for me; but you might well meet without me this time. I'll rejoin you on any Monday in the following weeks. Best regards, Stephan Am 02.07.2012 18:08, schrieb Rolf Kailuweit: > Hi Henry, > > That would be very interesting for me, too. I am sorry that I couldnt > participate today. > > Best > Rolf > > > Am 02.07.2012 14:26, schrieb Henry Story: >> On 2 Jul 2012, at 13:51, Georg Groh wrote: >> >>> dear all, >>> sorry for missing today's meeting but i had to attend an unforseen >>> but nevertheless urgent meeting. >>> i am nevertheless looking forward to joining your next meeting, if i >>> still may. :-) >> Hi Georg, >> >> Stephan and I had a good conversation today. He will send a couple of >> paragraph summary >> to this list later. >> >> But I think it's one of those subjects we have to go over again and >> again, as we are linking together many different areas of thought, >> which don't often get linked - so repetition is going to be welcome. >> >> What about having the next meeting next week at the same time? >> >> Henry >> >> >>> very best regards >>> georg >>> >>> Am 26.06.2012 16:28, schrieb Henry Story: >>>> On 24 Jun 2012, at 09:13, Henry Story wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 24 Jun 2012, at 08:59, Stephan Packard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Henry, dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> while this communication has gone to sleep, I hope it isn't dead, >>>>>> or at least that we can eventually revive it -- I'm stil very much >>>>>> interested in developing a view on internet communication from a >>>>>> pragmatic perspective, and I think that Henry's sumary of >>>>>> Derrida's critique is spot-on. >>>>>> >>>>>> For my part, I see I have some trouble finding time to do the >>>>>> topic justice as a sidebar to daily work, but if we could find a >>>>>> clearer schedule, I'd certainly make myself work towards that. >>>>>> Perhaps if we settle on a clear reading list for an exchange by >>>>>> mail, or a set date for a skype conversation? Alternatively, I >>>>>> could also imagine a live meeting at Freiburg or elsewhere, if we >>>>>> might work better with a day or two set apart; we should be able >>>>>> to get some funds for that, I think. What do you all think? >>>>> Yes, certainly. I have to do a presentation for a summer course on >>>>> Plato in France, where I would >>>>> like to integrate some of my reading on Speech Acts. In any case I >>>>> think we should talk a bit >>>>> because that is often a very good way to remember what one has >>>>> read: by trying to apply it in a >>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Here is a Doodle. Fill in the times, then we can organise a >>>>> Skype/phone meeting >>>>> >>>>> http://www.doodle.com/rzr7nm5zvu9fi7vc >>>> Looks like a good time will be the coming Monday 2 June, 11-12 am >>>> Paris time. >>>> >>>> Or precisely >>>> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=07&day=02&year=2012&hour=09&min=00&sec=0&p1=0 >>>> >>>> >>>> I am bblfish on Skype, and there is a telephone number in France you >>>> can call that will also tie >>>> into Skype +33 9 70 44 86 64 >>>> >>>> Look forward to talking with you then. >>>> >>>> Henry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Best regards, Stephan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22.05.2012 10:42, Henry Story wrote: >>>>>>> On 21 May 2012, at 17:43, Henry Story wrote: >>>>>>>> I have read the Searle/Derrida debate, gathered in Limited Inc >>>>>>>> [1], last year. >>>>>>>> But then I don't think I fully understood where Derrida was >>>>>>>> coming from, >>>>>>>> and have been trying to get some understanding of the big picture. >>>>>>>> I think I have a bit of a better overview now of the space, and >>>>>>>> I could re-read >>>>>>>> it again, but also there are a few books on the subject which I >>>>>>>> wanted to read. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - "Derrida/Searle, Déconstruction et language ordinaries" Raoul >>>>>>>> Moati >>>>>>> So I just finished this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is very helpful book, arguing very clearly for an >>>>>>> understanding of how the two authors diverge and why, which is >>>>>>> pretty difficult to work out if you don't have a good grounding >>>>>>> in both philosophies. The author argues that for Derrida there is >>>>>>> a phenomenological presupposition of the way intentionality >>>>>>> functions which he reads mistakenly into Austin. Where for Searle >>>>>>> linguistic conventions, and for Austin context - also understood >>>>>>> as conventional games - gives the explanation of an act of >>>>>>> language, and so does not imply the need for a (subjective) >>>>>>> intention (or at least allows the internal state to differ from >>>>>>> what is said ), Derrida tended to read this Husserlian >>>>>>> Intentionality into their use of meaning: the intention behind >>>>>>> the saying he believed to be the model Searle was using. For >>>>>>> Derrida too meaning is conventional, but he believes it is always >>>>>>> transforming and changing in a way he believes undermines the >>>>>>> idea of the sameness of meaning to lead us to an ontology of the pri >>>>>> ority of change, or iteration over identity (which seems to echo >>>>>> the title of Deleuze's first book "Différence et repetition"). But >>>>>> this just leads me to think that the next place to look at is Ruth >>>>>> Garrett Millikan, since her biological model of language builds on >>>>>> evolutionary theories, which describe organisms that are of course >>>>>> are always changing and transforming and work with a context ( the >>>>>> eco-sphere ) which is not clearly isolatable but yet which is >>>>>> essential to understanding the life of the organism. >>>>>>>> - "Deconstruction and Speech Act Theory: A Defence of the >>>>>>>> Distinction between Normal and Parasitic Speech Acts" >>>>>>>> http://www.e-anglais.com/parasitic_sa.html >>>>>>>> - In Millikan's "Language: A Biological Model" 'Proper Function >>>>>>>> and Convention in Speech Acts' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am not sure if Nissenbaum speaks of speech acts yet, but she >>>>>>>> speaks of context and its importance to privacy, >>>>>>>> which is I think part of how this ends up getting to be >>>>>>>> interesting to the philosophy of the web. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in my "Philosophy of the social web" slides 40-47 I cover a >>>>>>>> little bit the relation between speech acts >>>>>>>> and HTTP requests on the world wide web. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is probably enough for the moment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My guess is that the language games for the forms of life of >>>>>>>> humans before the internet, >>>>>>>> such as Searle, Austin, Wittgenstein and Derrida were, may no >>>>>>>> longer apply to forms of >>>>>>>> life with computers (us), where things that resemble human >>>>>>>> speech acts but are not >>>>>>>> quite the same, (perhaps these are document acts) come to be >>>>>>>> very useful. I think that >>>>>>>> should perhaps bring a new angle to the debate. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Henry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [1] http://www.amazon.com/Limited-Inc-Jacques-Derrida/dp/0810107880 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Social Web Architect >>>>>>>> http://bblfish.net/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Social Web Architect >>>>>>> http://bblfish.net/ >>>>>>> >>>>> Social Web Architect >>>>> http://bblfish.net/ >>>>> >>>> Social Web Architect >>>> http://bblfish.net/ >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Georg Groh >>> Chair for Applied Informatics / Cooperative Systems >>> TU München, Boltzmannstr. 3, 85748 Garching, Germany >>> Room: 01.05.059 >>> Phone: +49 89 289 18678 >>> Fax: +49 89 289 18657 >>> Mobile: +49 179 7953901 >>> Web: http://www11.in.tum.de/lehrstuhl/personen/grohg/ >>> >>> >> Social Web Architect >> http://bblfish.net/ >> > > -- Dr. Stephan Packard Juniorprofessor für Medienkulturwissenschaft Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg Werthmannstraße 16, 79098 Freiburg +49-761-203-97842
Received on Wednesday, 4 July 2012 06:58:28 UTC