- From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:03:38 -0500
- To: "WAI Protocols & Formats" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <OF0309D385.12039F62-ON86257EBB.000025DF-86257EBB.00005555@us.ibm.com>
HTML:
http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html
TEXT:
imestamps are in UTC.
16:26:44 [RRSAgent]
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16:26:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-irc
16:26:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:26:46 [Zakim]
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16:26:47 [MichaelC]
agenda:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0099.html
16:26:48 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:26:48 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the
next hour, trackbot
16:26:49 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:26:49 [trackbot]
Date: 03 September 2015
16:26:53 [MichaelC]
chair: Michael_Cooper
16:26:58 [MichaelC]
regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:30:17 [fesch]
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16:31:31 [clown]
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16:31:56 [clown]
clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405
16:33:12 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:33:15 [JemmaKu]
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16:33:16 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has changed the topic to: WebEx
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e
code 640 582 571
16:33:20 [clown]
clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 640 582 571
16:33:31 [fesch]
present+ fesch
16:33:58 [clown]
clown has changed the topic to: WebEx
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e code
640 582 571
16:34:10 [janina]
present+ janina
16:35:00 [clown]
present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:35:12 [MichaelC]
present+ MichaelC, Cynthia_Shelly, Fred_Esch, Jemma_Ku,
Joanmarie_Diggs
16:38:06 [MichaelC]
present+ Stefan
16:39:09 [Stefan]
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16:39:14 [Stefan]
Scribe: Stefan
16:39:22 [MichaelC]
topic: Charter Status
16:39:28 [Stefan]
MC: first status charter status
16:39:38 [Stefan]
Janina: no specific news
16:40:19 [Stefan]
Janijna: we have authority to publish
16:40:53 [Stefan]
Janina: we will habe quite abit of agenda a TPAC
16:41:44 [fesch]
s/habe/have/
16:42:57 [Stefan]
Janina: new charter not yet approved
16:43:31 [Stefan]
MC: have care that after approval we will have to rejoin groups
16:43:54 [Stefan]
MC: formal news mail will be send around
16:44:02 [Stefan]
MC: when this happens
16:44:09 [MichaelC]
topic: Actions 1675, 1676, 1677 Clean up class hieriarchy
16:44:10 [Stefan]
Topic: Actions 1675, 1676, 1677 Clean up class hieriarchy - Joanie
16:44:29 [joanie]
http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item08
16:44:33 [Stefan]
Joanie: will paste alink
16:44:55 [Stefan]
Joanie: last weeks minutes - there was red resolution
16:45:07 [clown]
"rs: agree we need to postpone this to interaction discussion"
16:45:12 [Stefan]
Joanie: rich do we have inheritance issue? .. yes
16:45:42 [Stefan]
Joanie: consensus was .. lets wait until joanie is back
16:45:59 [bgaraventa1979]
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16:46:17 [bgaraventa1979]
present+ Bryan_Garaventa
16:46:36 [Stefan]
Joanie: are associated with other issue
16:47:05 [Stefan]
Joanie: bottom line I think we decided we are not going to address it
for now
16:47:38 [Stefan]
MC: class hierarchy actions stand out of the main line work .. maybe
we allow this to wait and ignore it for the moment
16:48:08 [Stefan]
Joanie: if consensus is dont do now then good
16:48:40 [Stefan]
Cynthia: maybe issue around inheritance
16:48:59 [Stefan]
MC: not sure when it is good moment to do it
16:49:18 [Stefan]
MC: will take it on my list
16:49:29 [jongund]
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16:50:09 [MichaelC]
present+ Bryan
16:50:31 [MichaelC]
present+ Jon_Gunderson
16:50:33 [Stefan]
Topic: Actions 1710, 1711, 1712: aria-label overriding listitem and
treeitem content as containers (discuss removal of name required)
16:51:06 [Stefan]
•https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/736 •
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1710 (Rich) •
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1711 (Joseph) •
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1712 (Joanie)
16:52:14 [Stefan]
joseph: rich said FS is fine with it, joanie too others too (Mozilla)
16:52:38 [Stefan]
MC: rich created spinoff issue for link
16:53:24 [Stefan]
joseph: we could close 1710 and 1711
16:53:47 [Stefan]
MC: we should record resolution
16:53:54 [MichielBijl]
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16:54:27 [MichaelC]
present+ Michiel_Bijl
16:56:23 [clown]
proposal Remove "Accssible name required" and "name from contents"
from characteristics table for role listitem
16:56:30 [bgaraventa1979]
+1
16:56:38 [joanie]
+1000
16:56:38 [fesch]
+1
16:56:42 [Stefan]
+1
16:56:47 [MichielBijl]
s/Accssible/Accessible
16:56:50 [jongund]
+1
16:57:05 [JemmaKu]
+1
16:57:32 [Stefan]
RESOLUTION: Remove "Accssible name required" and "name from contents"
from characteristics table for role listitem
16:57:45 [MichielBijl]
s/Accssible/Accessible
16:57:46 [MichaelC]
issue-736: Resolution in 3 Sept 2015 ARIA meeting to accept the
change; leaving issue open pending completion of ACTION-1712 to ask
if objections from Apple
16:57:46 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-736 aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem
content when need to know content is valuable.
16:58:11 [MichaelC]
action-1712: this action is now to check for objection to resolution
from 3 Sep 2015
16:58:11 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-1712 Get with apple to discuss name from
content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on
lists.
16:58:18 [MichaelC]
close action-1710
16:58:19 [trackbot]
Closed action-1710.
16:58:23 [MichaelC]
close action-1712
16:58:23 [trackbot]
Closed action-1712.
16:58:29 [MichaelC]
close action-1711
16:58:30 [trackbot]
Closed action-1711.
16:58:38 [MichaelC]
reopen action-1712
16:58:38 [trackbot]
Re-opened action-1712.
16:59:10 [MichaelC]
action: joanie to Remove "Accessible name required" and "name from
contents" from characteristics table for role listitem
16:59:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1721 - Remove "accessible name required" and "name
from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem [on
Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-09-10].
16:59:22 [MichaelC]
trackbot, associate action-1721 with issue-736
16:59:22 [trackbot]
action-1721 (Remove "accessible name required" and "name from
contents" from characteristics table for role listitem) associated
with issue-736.
16:59:30 [MichaelC]
issue-1721: do after completion of action-1712
16:59:30 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-1721 .
16:59:55 [clown]
issue-633
16:59:55 [trackbot]
issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly
need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items --
open
16:59:55 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
16:59:56 [Stefan]
topic: Issue 633: listbox and tree may contain only static items;
badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed
items (Matt King)
17:02:31 [Stefan]
Stefan: there is room for improvement in wording of spec
17:03:53 [clown]
<div role=listview itemrole="link" aria-multiselectable="false">
17:03:53 [clown]
<A aria-posinset="1" ..../>
17:03:53 [clown]
<A aria-posinset="2" aria-active="true" ... />
17:03:53 [clown]
<a aria-posinset="3" ... />
17:03:54 [clown]
</div>
17:05:51 [Stefan]
Jon: main example is that people create menus and menu items are
links
17:06:31 [Stefan]
Brian: no simple way to fix it
17:07:13 [Stefan]
MC: lot of complicated issues .. we should make som list discussion
happen
17:07:52 [janina]
We were expecting Matt to start rejoining our Thursday calls. I
rather even expected him today. Maybe next Thursday!
17:08:26 [Stefan]
Stefan: I can start thread on mailing list with issue/action in
subject
17:08:43 [Stefan]
Stefan: and hopefully it will come to live
17:08:51 [MichaelC]
present+ Matt_King
17:08:58 [janina]
Yeah! Welcome back, Matt!
17:10:30 [Stefan]
Matt: we need clear definition of problem first
17:10:53 [Stefan]
Matt: this is missing in issue/actio n
17:11:23 [Stefan]
Topic: . Action 1703: Discuss having a Figure role
17:11:30 [clown]
action-1703
17:11:30 [trackbot]
action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about
the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list
of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default
role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- CLOSED
17:11:31 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703
17:12:25 [joanie]
http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item03
17:12:35 [Stefan]
Fred: we want to use figure inside of svg
17:12:54 [Stefan]
MC: figure is landmark role?
17:12:59 [Stefan]
Fred: not particulary
17:13:13 [Stefan]
Fred: better have list of figures separately
17:13:35 [Stefan]
MC: will aria-labelledby work?
17:13:50 [Stefan]
Fred: yes
17:14:21 [Stefan]
MC: svg will use regular aria labelling mechanisms
17:14:33 [Stefan]
Fred: in svg we have own mapping spec
17:14:56 [Stefan]
MC: fig differ from img role?
17:15:10 [Stefan]
Fred: you cannot explore img
17:15:27 [Stefan]
Fred: figure can have interactive things
17:15:58 [Stefan]
Fred: will all go into SVF stuff
17:16:07 [Stefan]
Stefan: SVG
17:16:32 [Stefan]
Matt: do you think figure is widget, fred?
17:16:40 [Stefan]
Fred: we are going beyond that
17:16:46 [JemmaKu]
s/SVF/SVG
17:16:53 [clown]
q+ to point out that role="img" has "children are presentational".
17:17:11 [Stefan]
Fred: mult. modes of nav, assistive tech acc. task force will do that
17:19:17 [Stefan]
Janina: maybe not same correspondance to widget
17:19:37 [jamesn]
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17:19:47 [Stefan]
MC: widgets in ARIA spec have concept that they are interactive
17:20:04 [Stefan]
+1
17:20:12 [Stefan]
+q
17:21:40 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:21:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate
http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:22:10 [jamesn]
present+ JamesNurthen
17:22:49 [Stefan]
MC: img can contain more that images accoerding to the ARIA spec
17:23:49 [Stefan]
MC: do we want figure role?
17:24:34 [Stefan]
Stefan: I think this has been already decided in last meeting
17:24:54 [clown]
http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#img
17:26:03 [MichaelC]
action-1708?
17:26:03 [trackbot]
action-1708 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Create proposed text for a
new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review -- due
2015-09-03 -- OPEN
17:26:03 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1708
17:26:37 [MichaelC]
action-1709?
17:26:37 [trackbot]
action-1709 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with steve faulkner to
discuss the html figure element mapping to role figure -- due
2015-09-03 -- OPEN
17:26:37 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1709
17:27:18 [MichaelC]
action-1708: see discussion in 3 Sep 2015 minutes for issues around
inheritance, content model, labeling, focus management
17:27:18 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-1708 Create proposed text for a new figure role
to joanie to put in a brancth for review.
17:27:22 [Stefan]
Fred: user agent should handle keyboard navigation
17:28:08 [Stefan]
Fred: in SVG mappings are already done
17:28:44 [Stefan]
MC: Rich should make concrete proposal based on last week's
discussion
17:29:14 [Stefan]
Matt: aria figure element is 1:1 mapping with HTML figure lelement?
17:29:26 [Stefan]
MC: mapping could be broad enough
17:29:46 [joanie]
q+
17:29:52 [Stefan]
-q
17:29:56 [clown]
zakim, ack me
17:29:56 [Zakim]
clown, you wanted to point out that role="img" has "children are
presentational".
17:29:58 [Zakim]
I see joanie on the speaker queue
17:30:29 [joanie]
http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item03
17:31:13 [Stefan]
Joanmarie: it is widgety I'm hearing today
17:31:30 [Stefan]
Joanmarie: we are not on same page that worries me
17:33:46 [Stefan]
Joanmarie: is the SVG a container of whatever?
17:34:12 [Stefan]
Fred: its a container and tab stops inside will have semantic
importance+
17:34:25 [clown]
http://w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-map
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17:35:28 [Stefan]
Fred: if SVG isnt explorable we will give role img
17:36:16 [Stefan]
Stefan: if it is explorable we would need role figure since figure
element in HTML is also potentially explorable and may contain active
content
17:36:56 [Stefan]
MC: HTML figure can be interactive but doesn't have to be
17:37:08 [clown]
w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-figure
17:37:14 [Stefan]
MC: we can classify it as interactive nevertheless
17:37:15 [clown]
mapped as "group"
17:38:27 [MichaelC]
q+
17:38:33 [joanie]
ack j
17:39:43 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:40:10 [mck]
mck has joined #aria
17:40:13 [Stefan]
MC: classification is not big concern, lets do Rich drat his proposal
and then review it
17:40:36 [jnurthen]
jnurthen has joined #aria
17:40:56 [clown]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0096.html
17:42:03 [clown]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0096.html
17:42:09 [clown]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0092.html
17:42:42 [MichaelC]
action-1715?
17:42:42 [trackbot]
action-1715 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with Steve Falkner on
acceptance of new figure role to be used by HTML -- due 2015-09-06 --
OPEN
17:42:42 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1715
17:43:01 [MichaelC]
action-1715:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0092.html
17:43:02 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-1715 Get with Steve Falkner on acceptance of
new figure role to be used by HTML.
17:44:50 [MichaelC]
action-1703?
17:44:50 [trackbot]
action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about
the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list
of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default
role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- CLOSED
17:44:51 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703
17:45:10 [jnurthen]
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17:45:42 [MichaelC]
present+ James_Nurthen
17:45:46 [MichaelC]
q?
17:46:06 [Stefan]
Stefan: I can mail Rich on public list to enhance proposal mentioning
that content is potentially interactive
17:46:17 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics.html#the-figure-element
17:47:08 [Stefan]
Stefan: this is important to mention since for inactive content we
have role img already
17:48:34 [Stefan]
MC: neyt week we are in approval mode
17:48:48 [clown]
issue-740?
17:48:48 [trackbot]
issue-740 -- Deprecating gridcell for grids and use cell -- open
17:48:48 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/740
17:49:15 [Stefan]
Topic: Issue 740: Deprecate gridcell in grids and use
17:49:35 [Stefan]
Stefan: cell :)
17:50:04 [Stefan]
Matt: do we need to specify both for a while?
17:50:06 [Stefan]
MC: no
17:50:17 [jnurthen]
I would advise "cell gridcell" though
17:50:19 [jnurthen]
:)
17:50:27 [Stefan]
+1
17:50:30 [Stefan]
;)
17:51:36 [Stefan]
Matt: cell is just a container
17:51:43 [clown]
http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#cell
17:52:04 [clown]
http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#gridcell
17:52:28 [Stefan]
MC: cell used in tables, gridcell in grids
17:52:43 [Stefan]
Cynthia: I'm fine with the change
17:53:47 [Stefan]
Cynthia: I think everything is potentially interactive
17:54:03 [Stefan]
Stefan: this is VERY true
17:54:40 [Stefan]
Matt: why not create synonyms, cell is the role?
17:57:23 [Stefan]
Joseph: we cant make them synonyms
17:57:42 [Stefan]
Janina: any reasons why this nees to be done in ARIA 1.1?
17:58:13 [Stefan]
joseph: we should log we should do confirmation round with Rich
presentr
17:58:21 [Stefan]
MC: resolutuon?
17:58:27 [clown]
s/we cant make them synonyms/we cant make them synonyms since cell is
a superclass of gridcell in the taxonomy/
17:59:18 [Stefan]
RESOLUTION: DO NOT DEPRECATE GRID CELL
17:59:21 [MichaelC]
issue-740: in discussion in 3 Sep 2015 meeting WG does not think
gridcell should be deprecated; but leaving issue open for RS to
confirm
17:59:21 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-740 Deprecating gridcell for grids and use cell.
18:00:04 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate
http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
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Rich Schwerdtfeger
Received on Wednesday, 9 September 2015 00:04:13 UTC