RE: Minutes from the ARIA telecon of 19 November

One issue I'd like to raise regarding the combobox role, is that there is no way to explicitly set a combobox value.

I'd like to propose adding aria-valuetext as a supported attribute of role=combobox as a means for setting the Value property in the accessibility tree.

Also, I think I heard this earlier but couldn't find it in the minutes, have we all agreed that aria-controls should be used for referencing the associated structures of a Combobox rather than aria-owns?

-----Original Message-----
From: Janina Sajka [mailto:janina@rednote.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:05 AM
To: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Subject: Minutes from the ARIA telecon of 19 November

Minutes from the 19 November ARIA teleconference are provided below as text, and are available as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html



   W3C

                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                              Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

19 Nov 2015

   Agenda

   See also: IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Bryan, JamesN, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MichaelC, fesch, janina, matt_king

   Regrets
          Rich, Michiel

   Chair
          MichaelC

   Scribe
          , Janina

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Next weekÂŽs meeting
         2. Issues & Actions
     * Summary of Action Items
     * Summary of Resolutions
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

   <janina> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/f18bba4c6c569e507d6c62096d3b41263e67887c/html-aam/html-aam.html


   <janina> scribe:

   <fesch> scribe: Janina

Next weekÂŽs meeting

   <scribe> scribe: janina

   mc: No meeting this coming Thursday, 26 November, because of U.S. Turkey Day!

Issues & Actions

   issue-504?

   <trackbot> issue-504 -- radio shouldn't have aria-selected -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/504


   mc: believe it's done

   clown: core-aam?

   jd: I checked

   RESOLUTION: Close Issue-504

   <MichaelC> close issue-504

   <trackbot> Closed issue-504.

   action-1736?

   <trackbot> action-1736 -- James Nurthen to Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button -- due 2015-10-19 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1736


   jn: discussed at tpac

   <clown> issue-624?

   <trackbot> issue-624 -- Primary Action Concept -- raised

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/624


   jn: I'm to finish a proposal
   ... Yet to do that, though

   mc: so, still pending

   <MichaelC> trackbot, associate issue-624 with action-1736

   <trackbot> action-1736 (Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button) associated with issue-624.

   [general concern that Leonie had concerns about this]

   <jamesn> it is in here http://www.w3.org/2015/10/26-aria-minutes.html


   <clown> specifically: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/26-aria-minutes.html#item03


   mc: Weneed to know whether Leonie's concern was on behalf of Web Platforms WG

   jn: She wasn't in the room when we discussed at TPAC

   action-1688?

   <trackbot> action-1688 -- James Nurthen to Draft proposal for aria-interactive -- due 2015-09-23 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1688


   mc: Rich is asking whether we can close this?

   jn: Think it's too late to do anything meaningful with this right now
   ... Unless we allow ARIA-Activedescendent on on role of application

   clown: so application has children

   jn: could be, no?
   ... a chart, with focusable elements in SVG

   clown: OK

   jd: Also fits with Matt's recent additions

   jn: currently works, but is a conformance error

   <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-activedescendant


   mc: suggest closing, and raise new action to raise the proposed resolution

   jd: on me, please

   <MichaelC> action-1688: seems there isnÂŽt support for this approach; instead, adding aria-activedescendant to application seems acceptable

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-1688 Draft proposal for aria-interactive.

   <MichaelC> close action-1688

   <trackbot> Closed action-1688.

   <MichaelC> ACTION: joanie to put aria-activedescendant on application and request WG review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1743 - Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-11-26].

   RESOLUTION: put Activedescendent on role application -- needs confirmation

   [matt has joined the call, so we're rehashing the above]

   <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1743 with product-17

   <trackbot> action-1743 (Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review) associated with product-17.

   <clown> <application><group aria-activedescendant="foo"> 
 </group></application> (JamesN's current situation).

   mk: app has no subclasses ...
   ... see no downsides

   <clown> proposal: <application aria-activedescendant="foo"> 
 </application>

   <MichaelC> action-1743: this is a spin-off from action-1688 whose approach we decided not to pursue

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-1743 Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review.

   [discussion on implication for aapis]

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements


   mk: hard for browser to conform to 5.2.1 in mapping

   jn: yes

   mk: concerned will have focus, but might not have role and label, so what then?
   ... without an implicit

   jn: should be an authoring error

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-activedescendant (see 3rd paragraph)

   fe: in svg we have explicit requirements on what's put into the tree

   <MichaelC> issue-633?

   <trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- closed

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633


   mk: would like to see language somewhere that makes it clear elements referred to by activedescendent, if not in a context with required or implicit semantics, that
   authors must provide role and label

   <MichaelC> action-1743: work with Matt to make it clear elements referred to by aria-activedescendant have a clear context

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-1743 Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review.

   mc: suggest we do issue triage ...

   issue-411?

   <trackbot> issue-411 -- Consider aria-description which would take a string like aria-label -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/411


   mc: more than 4 years old, obe?

   mk: another feature takes care of this?
   ... allows a string attribute ...

   mc: not part of recent description discussions -- we're looking for a single solution that meets all use cases
   ... suggest we don't meet this in 1.1. Could move to 2.0

   mk: suggest 2.0
   ... thinking of specific kinds of help, e.g. for keyboard

   mc: we have keyboard-shortcuts help
   ... notes we intend next published draft will be CR and soon
   ... suggest best with this at this time is 2.0

   <joanie> +1 to keeping it open, but for 2.0 so as not to make things messy

   mk: OK

   <MichaelC> trackbot, associate issue-411 with product-2

   <trackbot> issue-411 (Consider aria-description which would take a string like aria-label) associated with product-2.

   issue-427?

   <trackbot> issue-427 -- Need a way for application to find out what role has been applied to or computed for an element -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/427


   mc: also a 4-year old issue

   clown: alex's new api

   fe: also wapa

   mc: close? Saying wapa?

   [agreement]

   <MichaelC> issue-427: WAPA proposal would meet this requirement

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-427 Need a way for application to find out what role has been applied to or computed for an element.

   <MichaelC> close issue-427

   <trackbot> Closed issue-427.

   RESOLUTION: Close issue-427 as overcome by WAPA

   issue-497?

   <trackbot> issue-497 -- When features require an element with a particular role be present (e.g., grid requires that gridcell be owned by row), implicit native
   semantics, if defined, count (e.g., tr without a role attribute counts as an element with role row) -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/497


   jn: think this is now covered

   mk: was an exception ... but not verified

   <joanie> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0141.html


   mc: Possible we need a newer, more explicit issue, but think this issue should close

   RESOLUTION: Close Issue-497 and see how things go

   <MichaelC> close issue-497

   <trackbot> Closed issue-497.

   issue-504?

   <trackbot> issue-504 -- radio shouldn't have aria-selected -- closed

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/504


   jd: Already closed this

   mc: oops

   issue-526?

   <trackbot> issue-526 -- Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic corresponding
   to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1 -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/526


   mc: Hmm, this is "see how it goes" ...

   jn: Isn't this now allowed?

   mk: don't think so

   <clown> action-1405?

   <trackbot> action-1405 -- Joanmarie Diggs to For issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global attrs to apply to host language elements having the correct aria semantics
   -- due 2015-06-25 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1405


   <jamesn> I want to make sure i don't have to write <button role="button" aria-pressed="true">

   <joanie> From my statement in the ACTION: "However, authors must only use non-global states and properties on elements with a role supporting the state or property;
   either defined as an explicit WAI-ARIA role, **or as defined by the host language semantic matching an appropriate WAI-ARIA role**."(emphasis added)

   mc: Perhaps we keep open and action someone for a proposal

   [group noting JD's quote from the spec above]

   mc: Looking at today's pub ...
   ... Still in the text ...
   ... so we can close?

   RESOLUTION: Close issue-526 as completed

   <clown> +1

   <MichaelC> close issue-526

   <trackbot> Closed issue-526.

   <jamesn> +1

   <MichaelC> issue-526: met by text is spec "However, authors must only use non-global states and properties on elements with a role supporting the state or property;
   either defined as an explicit WAI-ARIA role, **or as defined by the host language semantic matching an appropriate WAI-ARIA role**."(emphasis added)

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-526 Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic
   corresponding to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1.

   mk: asking whewhy more grid changes weren't forthcoming ...

   jd: see above uri ... looking ....

   <joanie> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0141.html


   mc: so awaiting further discussion

   <joanie> action-1725

   <trackbot> action-1725 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create a proposal for an article feed -- due 2015-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1725


   action-1725?

   <trackbot> action-1725 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create a proposal for an article feed -- due 2015-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1725


   <MichaelC> Rich: Need further discussion on action 1725 related to list post https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Nov/0141.html


   issue-561?

   <trackbot> issue-561 -- We need @aria-placeholder as backup for @placeholder in custom fields. -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/561


   jd: done

   <MichaelC> close issue-561

   <trackbot> Closed issue-561.

   RESOLUTION: Close issue-561 as done

   clown: already has mappings!!

   issue-610?

   <trackbot> issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610


   mk: on my list, want to do this for 1.1, and could be a simple change ...

   mc: Action on James, reassign?

   mk: I'm hot for this one!

   issue-619?

   <trackbot> issue-619 -- ARIA 1.1 should disallow host languages from declaring @aria-label from being declared in direct semantic conflict with a host language
   attribute. -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/619


   mc: Huh?
   ... OK, have action and I'll get to it

   issue-639?

   <trackbot> issue-639 -- Making key events work automatically on focusable elements matching certain roles (e.g. button, link, checkbox), that have click event
   handlers -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/639


   mc: Is this an ARIA issue?

   clown: If role=button browser auto makes space work????

   jd: seems hard to implement in a performant fashion
   ... Chaas interested in this

   RESOLUTION: Move to 2.0 so we can discuss again, but may not really be an ARIA issue

   issue-641?

   <trackbot> issue-641 -- Abstract role section allows nameFrom content, and some subclassed roles under section do not allow nameFrom:contents (even definition, img,
   and math, which seems like they should) -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/641


   mk: we were concerned whether inheritance issues ...

   mc: suggest an action to implement simply ... may not even need confirmation
   ... JD can raise issues if needed?

   jn: worth 1.1 time?

   mc: it is cleanups

   <MichaelC> ACTION: joanie to implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1744 - Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-11-26].

   <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1744 with issue-641

   <trackbot> action-1744 (Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out) associated with issue-641.

   RESOLUTION: See action-1744

   issue-648?

   <trackbot> issue-648 -- Role computation with native host language semantics -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/648


   jd: looks like a dup

   mc: yes
   ... suggest we wait for rich

   [agreement]

   issue-680?

   <trackbot> issue-680 -- Create a new glossary definition called "Value of a Control". That has the following proposed definition. -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/680


   clown: did, diss'd

   <MichaelC> issue-680: glossary definition was created, implemented, not liked, removed, so closing

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-680 Create a new glossary definition called "Value of a Control". That has the following proposed definition..

   RESOLUTION: Close issue-680 is done, and dumped

   <MichaelC> close issue-680

   <trackbot> Closed issue-680.

   issue-682?

   <trackbot> issue-682 -- Clarify what happens to required owned childrens' roles when native host language parent is overridden with a WAI-ARIA role. -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/682


   clown: believe this has been dealt with

   mk: when is this an issue?

   jd: believe belongs in mapping spec
   ... agree with issue

   mc? so implementation guide for 1.1?

   <MichaelC> ACTION: clown to make a proposal to address issue-682 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1745 - Make a proposal to address issue-682 [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-11-26].

   <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1745 with issue-682

   <trackbot> action-1745 (Make a proposal to address issue-682) associated with issue-682.

   RESOLUTION Move issue-682 to product 1.1 implementation guide; create action for clown to address

   mc: we're at the hour, and we've handled about half of the open issues! Excellent

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: clown to make a proposal to address issue-682 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: joanie to implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: joanie to put aria-activedescendant on application and request WG review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/19-aria-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

    1. Close Issue-504
    2. put Activedescendent on role application -- needs confirmation
    3. Close issue-427 as overcome by WAPA
    4. Close Issue-497 and see how things go
    5. Close issue-526 as completed
    6. Close issue-561 as done
    7. Move to 2.0 so we can discuss again, but may not really be an ARIA issue
    8. See action-1744
    9. Close issue-680 is done, and dumped

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Scribes: , Janina
Present: Bryan JamesN Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer MichaelC fesch janina matt_king
Regrets: Rich Michiel
Found Date: 19 Nov 2015
People with action items: clown joanie


-- 

Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
   sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net

  Email: janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org


The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf

Received on Thursday, 19 November 2015 20:09:38 UTC