RE: Updated slider example for APG discussion

Cynthia,

When integrated into the APG, all the examples will reference their 
patterns. So all the info about ARIA attribs will be easy to get. This 
example is currently stand-alone in John's repo so you don't see any of 
that.

I understand the request to do more, but am not clear what that would look 
like in practice without turning the APG into "how to develop a screen 
reader" ... which is not its purpose.

It is left to the screen reader designer to decide how to perform the 
screen reader functions of announcing widget name, role, value, state, 
changes in state, etc. In the APG, we describe how authors set these 
things and and how they change, but do not decide what is an adequate 
level of communication to the end user of AT. Should the screen reader 
speak the slider value or the percentage or both? Should it give the user 
a choice? Should it automatically speak one and then have some ridiculous 
4-finger command for hearing the other? There is not always a clear answer 
to any such questions. Should the APG specify what should be, at a 
minimum, communicated to the users of AT? The current taskforce consensus, 
as I understand it, is that it is completely up to the AT designer to make 
such decisions. 

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:   Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
To:     "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>, Matthew 
King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc:     "public-pfwg@w3.org" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date:   03/24/2015 02:48 PM
Subject:        RE: Updated slider example for APG discussion



I agree that an explicit UI spec is out of scope.  However, speaking as 
someone trying to build and test a screen-reader, it would be very useful 
to have text in the examples showing what aria values are set or changed 
in response to what user actions, and how you envisioned this working when 
you created it as an author.  I could probably figure that out by digging 
through the code and trying it with other AT products, but that is a lot 
of error-prone work.
 
I just tried this in IE+Narrator, and the behavior I’m getting doesn’t 
feel very usable to me.  I’m not sure if that is a shortcoming of the 
example or of the browser/AT combo.  Some details on what you expected 
would help a lot. 
 
Make sense?
 
From: Gunderson, Jon R [mailto:jongund@illinois.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 7:10 AM
To: Matthew King; Cynthia Shelly
Cc: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Updated slider example for APG discussion
 
Shelly,
 
I agree with Matt there should be something between nothing and a mandates 
to AT.
 
This is where at least some information on current experience with 
different OS/Browser/AT would be helpful.
 
For example Safari/Voice Over just speaks percentages for the default 
slider implementation, so there users don’t know the current numerical 
value or max/min values.  In  JAWS and NVDA on windows tell you the 
numeric values but not the max/min.
 
This information maybe useful to developers to decide if they want to use 
aria-valuetext to have a ore consistent experience to users across 
platforms.
 
Jon
 
 
From: Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 6:41 AM
To: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
Cc: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>, "public-pfwg@w3.org" <
public-pfwg@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Updated slider example for APG discussion
 
Cynthia,

We have made a decision not to do this in the APG taskforce because we 
understand it is not our place to "dictate screen reader behavior." We 
believe that screen reader developers want to work with end users of their 
products to assess adequacy and/or competitive advantage.

I believe there may be some middle ground  between dictating acceptable 
output and nothing that would be helpful, but the taskforce consensus is 
not to attempt to tackle that question at this time.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:        Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
To:        "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>, "public-pfwg@w3.org" 
<public-pfwg@w3.org>, 
Date:        03/23/2015 06:11 PM
Subject:        RE: Updated slider example for APG discussion




HI Jon,
Have you documented what the expected screen-reader output is for these 
sliders? I’m trying to figure out if the experience in Windows 10 is 
acceptable.
 
Thanks,
Cynthia
 
From: Gunderson, Jon R [mailto:jongund@illinois.edu] 
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 9:55 AM
To: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Updated slider example for APG discussion
 
I have updated the slider example for the authoring practices guide (APG) 
and included some META information that hopefully we can discuss on the 
call today.
 
http://jongund.github.io/aria-examples/slider/slider-1.html

 
Jon
 
 
From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 11:41 AM
To: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Agenda: Monday, 16 March 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices 
Guide Taskforce
 
Believe me - I have made the same mistake a number of times.
On 3/16/2015 9:38 AM, Gunderson, Jon R wrote:
Sorry, got mixed up with the ARIA call.
 
Jon
 
 
From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 11:37 AM
To: Gunderson, Jon R; public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Agenda: Monday, 16 March 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices 
Guide Taskforce
 
The meeting isn't for another 30 (well 25 now) minutes
On 3/16/2015 9:35 AM, Gunderson, Jon R wrote:
I tried calling the bridge and it would not let me in:
 
Something about a restriction.
 
Jon
 
 
From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 11:34 AM
To: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Agenda: Monday, 16 March 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices 
Guide Taskforce
 
I think Matt is going to try to be there. His meeting should be done in 
time.


On 3/16/2015 9:05 AM, Ku, Ja Eun wrote:
Then are we cancelling the meeting today?
 
Jemma
 
From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 11:01 AM
To: James Nurthen; public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: RE: Agenda: Monday, 16 March 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices 
Guide Taskforce
 
I also have a conflicting appointment that may prevent me from attending, 
so it depends on how soon I can break free.
 
From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 8:45 AM
To: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Agenda: Monday, 16 March 2015 WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices 
Guide Taskforce
 
Unfortunately I have been sick for the last 5 days and have a Doctor's 
appointment during the call time so if Matt cannot make it we will need to 
cancel the call.

Regards,
James
On 3/16/2015 5:25 AM, Matthew King wrote:
Reminder ... since I sent this a week ago.
There is a possibility I may not be able to attend today. If I do not 
show, James, I hope you will be available to lead the call.
I am at our Austin site teaching. I believe we will be done in time, but 
am not completely certain.



From:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM
To:        WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>, 
Date:        03/09/2015 12:56 PM
Subject:        Agenda: Monday, 16 March 2015  WAI-PF ARIA Authoring 
Practices Guide    Taskforce 




Agenda for Monday, 16 March 2015  WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices Guide 
Taskforce 

Time: 10:00 AM US Pacific, 1:00 PM US Eastern 
duration: 1.5 hours 
Zakim Bridge: +1.617.761.6200, conference 92473 ("WAIPF") 
IRC server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #aria-apg 

agenda: 

Agenda+ autocomplete http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#autocomplete


Agenda+ Combo box http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#combobox


Agenda+ Planning for next public working draft

Resources: 
APG 1.0 editors draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/

APG master in rawGit: 
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html

APG Open defects: 
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Practices&list_id=45642&product=ARIA&resolution=---


APG Open issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/6


Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com