Re: Is there a public list of events that should fire when ARIA is used?

I think so. After all MS invented MSAA :)

On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

>  I just checked it out using Event Watcher, and OBJ_DESCRIPTIONCHANGE
> fires perfectly in Firefox, but doesn’t fire at all in IE11.
>
>
>
> Shouldn’t they do the same thing?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Alexander Surkov [mailto:surkov.alexander@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:04 AM
> *To:* Bryan Garaventa
>
> *Subject:* Re: Is there a public list of events that should fire when
> ARIA is used?
>
>
>
> Hi, Bryan. If AT doesn't pick up a dynamically changed accessible
> description because Firefox doesn't fire proper event then could you please
> file a bug against us?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:55 AM, Bryan Garaventa <
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>  Thanks, the reason why I bring up this particular use case, is because
> we have been working on the ARIA Tooltip design pattern in the ARIA APG
> group, and it calls for a time delay between the time that the element is
> triggered and when the tooltip is displayed visually.
>
>
>
> When this is the case, there is no guarantee that the tooltip container
> will exist in the DOM until it is actually rendered, such as
> element.appendChild or the use of innerHTML in some cases.
>
>
>
> When this happens, there is no way to set aria-describedby in advance,
> because there is nothing to point it to.
>
>
>
> So, in this case, how are ARIA Tooltips to be made accessible, where the
> tooltip text will be announced reliably when it appears?
>
>
>
> Should there be two different design patterns for tooltips, one for when
> they are always in the DOM, and another for when they are not? E.G One
> requiring the use of aria-describedby+role=tooltip, and another that should
> not use this combination because it doesn’t work?
>
>
>
> It doesn’t appear that the spec text for role=tooltip is enough to explain
> this properly.
>
>
>
> *From:* Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 22, 2015 4:50 PM
> *To:* Dominic Mazzoni
> *Cc:* Bryan Garaventa; public-pfwg@w3.org
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Is there a public list of events that should fire when
> ARIA is used?
>
>
>
> Hi Dominic,
>
> I don't believe and event fires for that. That said, with MSAA/IA2 you
> will get a relation set and an accDescription applied. So, only the
> description change event is really necessary. I don't believe we created a
> describedby event change for just the reason you highlighted. Descriptions
> constitute secondary information and are not typically spoken
> automatically.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Dominic Mazzoni ---02/22/2015 12:19:47
> PM---If the description is exposed in the "description" field]Dominic
> Mazzoni ---02/22/2015 12:19:47 PM---If the description is exposed in the
> "description" field when you explore it with a MSAA tool, then
>
> From: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>
> To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
> Cc: "public-pfwg@w3.org" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
> Date: 02/22/2015 12:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Is there a public list of events that should fire when ARIA
> is used?
>  ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> If the description is exposed in the "description" field when you explore
> it with a MSAA tool, then EVENT_OBJECT_DESCRIPTIONCHANGE would be the event
> that should fire.
>
> However, if aria-describedby points to another element with visible text
> on the page, then it's exposed via IAccessibleRelation with the code
> IA2_RELATION_DESCRIBED_BY. I can't find an event that's supposed to fire if
> that property changes. Maybe someone else knows?
>
> In either case, it's not clear to me that dynamically changing the
> accessible description - by any means - should necessarily cause a screen
> reader to speak the description. In general the only standard way to get a
> screen reader to speak something asynchronously (i.e. not in response to a
> user event) is with a live region. Any other case where it speaks something
> is typically dependent on the screen reader and not standardized.
>
> - Dominic
>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 3:39 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
> I do have one question though, it looks like aria-describedby isn’t listed
> as firing any event when changed programmatically. Does this actually fire
> any event when this occurs?
>
>
>
> I’m referring to the scenario when an element has focus, such as a form
> field, and within a certain time delay (e.g 1.5 seconds), a tooltip is
> programmatically displayed by inserting it into the DOM, where
> aria-describedby is then set on the element that has focus to point to the
> newly displayed tooltip.
>
>
>
> This scenario would also occur for dynamically updating tooltips, such as
> when typing into a form field that rendered different tooltips as you type
> in order to shape the user’s input responses.
>
>
>
> Does the modification of aria-describedby then fire a specific event when
> this occurs?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Dominic Mazzoni [mailto:dmazzoni@google.com]
> * Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2015 11:24 PM
> * To:* Bryan Garaventa
> * Cc:* public-pfwg@w3.org
> * Subject:* Re: Is there a public list of events that should fire when
> ARIA is used?
>
>
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
>
>
> The WAI-ARIA User Agent Implementation Guide includes a section on what
> events are supposed to be fired in response to ARIA changes:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#mapping_events
>
>
>
> If you're testing IE, the table should be sufficient. However if you're
> testing Firefox or Chrome, I'm not sure you can use Accessible Event
> Watcher because I think it only knows about MSAA and UIA events, but
> Firefox and Chrome also send IAccessible2 events.
>
>
>
> - Dominic
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 9:10 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
> Hopefully somebody can point me in the right direction here.
>
> I'm experimenting with Accessible Event Watcher, at
>
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd317979%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> In order to get a better understanding of which events fire when ARIA is
> used on the Windows OS, and when this happens such as when various
> properties and states change during interaction.
>
> However, I'm not sure which events I should be checking for, what their
> names are, and which ARIA changes should be triggering these.
>
> Is there a public list of events somewhere that describes which events
> should fire and when that I could review in order to understand these
> things better? I expect this may be platform specific, but any resource
> would be helpful.
>
> Thanks,
> Bryan
>
>
>
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>