RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage

No, the guidance is for the carousel container, which is helpful especially when navigating large documents that include dynamically changing content.

When you activate the link and arrow down twice, it states:

“To group the carousel in a way that is perceivable for assistive technologies, the role attribute with a value of region can be used. To identify the region, the aria-label attribute can be used, as show in the example below:”

Since this guidance makes a visually perceivable section clearly conveyable to non-sighted AT users as well to aid navigation, I don’t see how this is an incorrect usage of ARIA.

From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:09 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage

Bryan,

I do not see any use of region on:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/carousels/structure/#using-wai-aria-roles-and-labels


Are you suggesting the figures containing example would be wrapped in regions? I would not make the same suggestion. I do not think it fits the intent of region.

It is kind of interesting that the examples are in figure elements and that those map to group. I do not think that is a very helpful mapping; I hope that is changing with ARIA 1.1.

I wish I had time to help contribute to that page. There are problems with nearly all the landmarks, which is troubling on a WAI tutorial page.
For example, there is a link with role navigation. Much of what is inside main does not belong inside main. Several of the navigation regions are labeled using the word "navigation".

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com<mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com>



From:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>
To:        "public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>" <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>,
Date:        04/23/2015 07:18 PM
Subject:        RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage
________________________________



I agree, I think it would be good to revisit the spec text for region, here is an example of where the region role is useful for identifying grouped content such as this:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/carousels/structure/#using-wai-aria-roles-and-labels


I recommended this while it was being worked on in order to provide clear boundary information for screen reader users, which is helpful when it includes dynamic content and active element controls that need to be grouped together as they are visually so that non-sighted screen reader users can easily jump to or passed this content region.

As is, it doesn’t fit the current definition of region in the spec however.

I tried to find where it defines “page summary” within the text as it relates to landmarks in the 1.1 spec at
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#landmark

And wasn’t able to locate it anywhere.

I do think the following definition is more representative of what the region role does however, stated at
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#terms

Within the note.

Landmark
“A type of region on a page to which the user may want quick access.         Content in such a region is different from that of other regions on the        page and relevant to a specific user purpose, such as navigating, searching,         perusing the primary content, etc.”

As opposed to what the role for region currently states.


From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:52 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa
Subject: RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage

it says page summary or table of contents. Page summary is meant to be dynamic as described in the description of the landmark role.
The text is not meant to imply in any way that region is limited to or even primarily for static documents.
Perhaps we need to make the region role description more like the landmark role description.
That will be come even more important as options for removing abstract roles from the document are investigated as discussed in today's call.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com<mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com>



From:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>
To:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS,
Cc:        W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>
Date:        04/23/2015 05:17 PM
Subject:        RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage
________________________________




Because not everything can be categorized so easily, and stating ‘table of contents’ in the spec for this role implies that region can only be used for static documents, which isn’t true.



Bryan Garaventa
Senior Accessibility Engineer
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com

From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:14 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
Subject: Re: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage

if it is not important enough to be in a page summary, why would it be in a region?
Example of page summary: jaws region tree.
BTW, I usually put breadcrumbs in nav elements.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com<mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com>



From:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>
To:        W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>,
Date:        04/23/2015 11:50 AM
Subject:        ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage
________________________________





This came up yesterday, and it's something I wished to raise regarding the spec definition for the region role at
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#region

Which states:

"A large perceivable section of a web page or document, that is important enough to be included in a page summary or table of contents, for example, an area of the page containing live sporting event statistics."

In practice however, there are many valid uses for named regions that don't fit this definition, such as the following:

<div role="region" aria-label="breadcrumbs">
... breadcrumb structure ...
</div>

Amongst many others, none of which fit into the 'large structure that ties into the table of contents' definition mentioned in the spec, which is confusing developers who simply want to define a specific region on the page for a specific navigable purpose.

The helpful aspect of the above usage, is that it puts visually oriented regions into the region list for ATs, making it easy to find and navigate to specific regions of interest. However the spec text actively discourages this.

Can this be modified to be less restrictive?