RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage

Bryan,

I do not see any use of region on:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/carousels/structure/#using-wai-aria-roles-and-labels


Are you suggesting the figures containing example would be wrapped in 
regions? I would not make the same suggestion. I do not think it fits the 
intent of region.

It is kind of interesting that the examples are in figure elements and 
that those map to group. I do not think that is a very helpful mapping; I 
hope that is changing with ARIA 1.1.

I wish I had time to help contribute to that page. There are problems with 
nearly all the landmarks, which is troubling on a WAI tutorial page.
For example, there is a link with role navigation. Much of what is inside 
main does not belong inside main. Several of the navigation regions are 
labeled using the word "navigation".

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:   Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To:     "public-pfwg@w3.org" <public-pfwg@w3.org>, 
Date:   04/23/2015 07:18 PM
Subject:        RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied 
usage



I agree, I think it would be good to revisit the spec text for region, 
here is an example of where the region role is useful for identifying 
grouped content such as this:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/carousels/structure/#using-wai-aria-roles-and-labels

 
I recommended this while it was being worked on in order to provide clear 
boundary information for screen reader users, which is helpful when it 
includes dynamic content and active element controls that need to be 
grouped together as they are visually so that non-sighted screen reader 
users can easily jump to or passed this content region.
 
As is, it doesn’t fit the current definition of region in the spec 
however.
 
I tried to find where it defines “page summary” within the text as it 
relates to landmarks in the 1.1 spec at
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#landmark

And wasn’t able to locate it anywhere.
 
I do think the following definition is more representative of what the 
region role does however, stated at
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#terms

Within the note.
 
Landmark
“A type of region on a page to which the user may want quick access.  
Content in such a region is different from that of other regions on the   
page and relevant to a specific user purpose, such as navigating, 
searching,         perusing the primary content, etc.”
 
As opposed to what the role for region currently states.
 
 
From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:52 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa
Subject: RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage
 
it says page summary or table of contents. Page summary is meant to be 
dynamic as described in the description of the landmark role.
The text is not meant to imply in any way that region is limited to or 
even primarily for static documents.
Perhaps we need to make the region role description more like the landmark 
role description.
That will be come even more important as options for removing abstract 
roles from the document are investigated as discussed in today's call.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc:        W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Date:        04/23/2015 05:17 PM
Subject:        RE: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied 
usage




Because not everything can be categorized so easily, and stating ‘table of 
contents’ in the spec for this role implies that region can only be used 
for static documents, which isn’t true.
 
 
 
Bryan Garaventa
Senior Accessibility Engineer
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com
 
From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:14 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
Subject: Re: ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied usage
 
if it is not important enough to be in a page summary, why would it be in 
a region?
Example of page summary: jaws region tree.
BTW, I usually put breadcrumbs in nav elements.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com



From:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To:        W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>, 
Date:        04/23/2015 11:50 AM
Subject:        ARIA 1.1 issue with role=region spec text and implied 
usage





This came up yesterday, and it's something I wished to raise regarding the 
spec definition for the region role at
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#region

Which states:

"A large perceivable section of a web page or document, that is important 
enough to be included in a page summary or table of contents, for example, 
an area of the page containing live sporting event statistics."

In practice however, there are many valid uses for named regions that 
don't fit this definition, such as the following:

<div role="region" aria-label="breadcrumbs">
... breadcrumb structure ...
</div>

Amongst many others, none of which fit into the 'large structure that ties 
into the table of contents' definition mentioned in the spec, which is 
confusing developers who simply want to define a specific region on the 
page for a specific navigable purpose.

The helpful aspect of the above usage, is that it puts visually oriented 
regions into the region list for ATs, making it easy to find and navigate 
to specific regions of interest. However the spec text actively 
discourages this.

Can this be modified to be less restrictive?