RE: [REVIEW REQUESTED][ARIA] placeholder

Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote on 04/04/2015 
08:21:46 PM:
> The proposed text looks good to me. I would like to make one 
> suggestion though.
> 
> Where it states
> 
> "Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the text
> when the control's Value is the empty string, especially if the 
> control is not focused."
> 
> It might also be good to add that the hint should only be removed 
> after the user starts typing, and not onFocus, otherwise screen 
> reader users are more likely to miss it during navigation.

Or just change it to:

"Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the hint text
at any time the control's Value is the empty string."

Or, if there is concern this is not adequately clear based on the various 
implementations we see across the web, then:

"Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the hint text
at any time the control's Value is the empty string., including when the 
control first receives focus, and when users remove a previously entered 
value."

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com

Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote on 04/04/2015 
08:21:46 PM:

> From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
> To: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>, Alexander Surkov 
> <surkov.alexander@gmail.com>, 
> Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
> Date: 04/04/2015 08:22 PM
> Subject: RE: [REVIEW REQUESTED][ARIA] placeholder
> 
> Hi Joanie, 
> The proposed text looks good to me. I would like to make one 
> suggestion though.
> 
> Where it states
> 
> "Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the text
> when the control's Value is the empty string, especially if the 
> control is not focused."
> 
> It might also be good to add that the hint should only be removed 
> after the user starts typing, and not onFocus, otherwise screen 
> reader users are more likely to miss it during navigation.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joanmarie Diggs [mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2015 9:47 AM
> To: Alexander Surkov
> Cc: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats
> Subject: Re: [REVIEW REQUESTED][ARIA] placeholder
> 
> Hi Alex, all.
> 
> The questions and discussion that have resulted from my review 
> request are important topics and need to be resolved. However, 
> whether or not the placeholder should be a name fallback seems like 
> a question for the accessible name computation spec. And how to 
> expose the placeholder to platforms seems like a question for the 
> user agent implementation spec.
> 
> As a screen reader developer, I myself have opinions on both topics.
> :) But as an ARIA spec co-editor who has been tasked with the 
> creation of an aria-placeholder attribute, the intent of my review 
> request was to ascertain the following:
> 
> 1. Do we have consensus that the addition of this attribute is indeed
>    needed? If so,
> 2. What changes to the proposed ARIA spec text need to be made before we
>    are ready to officially add this attribute to ARIA 1.1?
> 
> If the group feels we cannot answer 1 and/or 2 until we resolve 
> these other topics, that's fine with me. But then it would be 
> helpful if that was explicitly stated because it's not clear to me 
> from this thread. And I cannot do the will of the group if I don't 
> understand what the will of the group is. :)
> 
> --joanie
> 
> On 04/02/2015 03:36 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
> > Hey. I'm agree that placeholder has different semantics than label and 

> > value but I'm still not certain about how this semantics can be used 
> > by AT. The point is if there's no consumers for it then there's no 
> > great benefit from having it. Iirc we started this chat before but I 
> > don't recall what outcome was. SO do we have any data how AT 
> > developers want to handle @placeholder? Firefox was used to map HTML 
> > @placeholder into accessible name and it seems it worked fine with AT.
> > 
> > Btw, I'm not sure I agree that placeholder cannot be used instead of 
> > label. That should be the use case for mobile web. On the other hand 
> > there are examples of minimalistic UI on desktop, like searchbox on 
> > DEVMO page [1] that doesn't have a label.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > Alex.
> > 
> > [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
> > 
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com 
> > <mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com>> wrote:
> > 
> >     Hey all.
> > 
> >     I'm pretty sure that I've incorporated everyone's feedback into my
> >     proposal for aria-placeholder. But I would like a final review 
just to
> >     be sure as the discussion seems to have stopped. Here's the 
branch:
> > 
> > https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1349/aria/aria.html#aria-placeholde
> > r
> > 
> >     As per the discussion at today's ARIA concall, if there is no 
feedback
> >     on this by next week, I shall merge it into master.
> > 
> >     --joanie
> > 
> > 
> 
>