Re: [REVIEW REQUESTED][ARIA] Table roles

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com> wrote:

> Hey Alex.
>
> On 04/02/2015 10:56 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>
> > I'm curious why you need role caption at all. I assumed that If you
> > encounter a table then you read its label and use table interface to
> > navigate it. Do you make something different?
>
> Navigation is up to the user. A user can arrow into a table and within a
> table using caret navigation commands. A user can also use table
> navigation commands. Orca provides both. And if the caption is in the
> accessible tree and implements the accessible text interface, Orca is
> not going to skip over it and prevent the user from using caret
> navigation within it. That's the case for HTML tables which lack ARIA,
> anyway.
>

So if it was a label instead caption then would you have different behavior?


>
> > For the reference, caption
> > and summary methods for table were deprecated in IA2 because they dupe
> > labelledby and describedby relations.
>
> So what happens in native tables which lack ARIA and use the caption
> element?
>

caption is mapped to labelledby relation, it's not about ARIA.


>
> > In case of ARIA I guess people do
> >
> > <div role="label" id="label">
> > <div role="table" aria-labelledby="label">
> > </div>
>
> Ok, please map that to ATK_ROLE_CAPTION. :) (I guess we need to talk
> about this at the AAPI meeting, after doing some preliminary
> investigation. I'll add that to my list.)
>
> > Yes but same time you don't argue to have gridrow role.
>
> Fair enough.
>
> By the way, are you able to join us at the ARIA calls? They are
> Thursdays from 12:30 - 14:00 our time. And those meetings are where we
> discuss and debate the very sorts of things you ask here -- and asked
> about the rowcount and colcount properties. Having your input, and you
> hearing first hand the discussion, sounds like it would be helpful.
>

ok, I can keep trying to join.


>
> --joanie
>


On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com> wrote:
Follow-up:

On 04/02/2015 11:44 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

> On 04/02/2015 10:56 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

[...]

> So what happens in native tables which lack ARIA and use the caption
> element?
>
>> In case of ARIA I guess people do
>>
>> <div role="label" id="label">
>> <div role="table" aria-labelledby="label">
>> </div>

Captions are not limited to short content. Consider the example here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/tabular-data.html#the-caption-element

If someone does that in HTML, that paragraph is not the "label" or
"name" of the table. And that is a bunch of text that should not just be
spewed out in one breath to the user. And it should be navigable.

What if an author does the equivalent, but using ARIA instead?

that should be fine, it's exposed both as labelledby relation and
accessible name. The point is caption is no semantically different than
label.

--joanie