minutes: June 16, 2014 WAI PF ARIA Caucus from Matthew King on 2014-06-16 (public-pfwg@w3.org from June 2014)

From: Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 14:40:55 -0400
To: WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OFD5BB0A99.6D443884-ON88257CF9.006662AB-88257CF9.0066A108@us.ibm.com>
Draft minutes are posted at the following URL and follow my signature in 
plain text.

http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html


Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement 
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com

W3C <http://www.w3.org/>


  - DRAFT -


  Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
  16 Jun 2014

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina, SteveF, +1.541.678.aaaa,
    +1.603.882.aabb, Matt_King, Joanie_Diggs, Jon_Gunderson,
    Joseph_Scheuhammer, Chris_Gallello, James_Nurthen, LJWatson,
    +1.215.518.aacc, [Microsoft]
Regrets
Chair
    Rich
Scribe
    mattking, matt_king


    Contents

  * Topics <#agenda>
     1. ARIA in HTML 5 <#item01>
     2. Issue 655, anotation <#item02>
  * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 16 June 2014

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0091.html

<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0091.html>

<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: mattking

<scribe> scribe: matt_king

<scribe> scribe: mattking


      ARIA in HTML 5

JS: html5 2nd last call will happen this week and then could go to
Proposed Recommendation after that
... We are not sure that the strong semantics are testable as stated.

<clown>
http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20140617/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics

<
http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20140617/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics

>

JS: So perhaps it should be informational in html5 and then normative at
a later time.
... Perhpas the authoring guidance should be normative and the UA
guidance should be informative

<richardschwerdtfeger> ack

RS: We can test the restrictions on which roles on which elements
... those most important part to test; can be done with validators.
... We definitely need a MUST on those restrictions.

<richardschwerdtfeger> ack

<clown>
http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20140617/dom.html#sec-implicit-aria-semantics

<
http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20140617/dom.html#sec-implicit-aria-semantics

>

<SteveF> http://stevefaulkner.github.io/html-mapping-tests/


SF: Strong native semantics define author restrictions. Implicit
semantics define UA requirements for mapping native elements to ARIA 
roles.
... Over weekend wrote test cases for implicit semantics.
... which are currently MMUSTS in html5 spec

FS: dialog and details are in 5.1 not 5

RS: however, separater and image could be a problem.

SF: Most of the issues are not contraversial; requirements are clear.
... My test table currently includes some elements with no
implementation reqs; I will remove those. I will also remove things not
in html5.
... If you take those things out, about 90% pass.
... Need to correct heading mapping in last call.

RS: surprised link didn't pass.

SF: the link element was mistakenly mapped to the link role in aria.
... This the link ement, not the anchor element.

JS: If Steve gets the bugs filed and they get resolved, what should the
status be? Normative or informative?

RS: If they get resolved, we could keep it as normative.

SF: for the limited requirements that html 5 makes, we are probably safe
keeping this normative. Keep in mind, there are many other requirements
that the html5 spec does not cover, eg, name calculation.

JS: Should we mark this at risk?

SF: Because number issues is small, we should aim for getting them
resolved. We do not have to put the whole section at risk due to these
issues.
... In some cases there is "no role" but there is still an attribute, eg
read-only.

RS: When we say there is no mapping, that means there is no required
mapping, right?

<SteveF>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#concept-role-none

<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#concept-role-none>

SF: That link points to the meaning of "no role" in html 5.
... I will clean up the table and then we can have another look.

JS: Should I withdraw the pref to put this at risk?

MC: It does not hurt to continue marking it at risk. That can push
getting the defects resolved.

RS: Does that force them to go back to last call?

MC: You have to say what will be done if risk condition is met.

JS: The risk response could be to mark it informative rather than
striking it.

RS: we need to make sure the info that is there is accurate even if it
is informative.
... For example, the heading not having a mapping.

SF: It is still accurate, it just means there is not a required mapping.
... 5.1 spec still maps Hn to heading and aria-level n
... The vast majority pass. We could just pull the specific assertions
that fail by making those at risk.

JS: we have only hours to do that.

SF: I will provide Janina with the list of assertions that are
potentially at risk.

JN: how does it work when we add new roles to ARIA?
... What about using role none in place of presentation?
... does that specifically have to be written into the html 5 spec?
... The way this is written in html5, we can not use new roles because
the way this is written.

MC: We could have them make it clear that it is referencing aria 1.0 and
then add some language that would give us some wiggle room for later
versions.

<SteveF> html is in a dev continuous cycle they can be added to 5.1/5.2 
etc

JN: Who is reviewing this. Brian posted several issues.

<jamesn> uh oh

<richardschwerdtfeger> i am now on mute

<clown> issue-655?

<trackbot> issue-655 -- Consider creating annotations roles for
comments, spell-check errors, etc -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/655



      Issue 655, anotation

<cgallello> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/655


issue-655?

<trackbot> issue-655 -- Consider creating annotations roles for
comments, spell-check errors, etc -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/655


<cgallello>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0161.html

<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0161.html>

<richardschwerdtfeger>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0161.html

<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0161.html>

CG: attributes on annotated elements and attribs on anotation elements
are described in the e-mail post.

<jamesn> can we add an annotation type of "moreinfo"?

CG: An onotated element would preserve role of the element; the
annotation is an attrib.

<clown> <span aria-annotationtype="moreinfo"> … ?

JN: Can we have an annotation type of something like "more info"?

RS: I would like something other than "true"; something like "author
defined".

<cgallello> I lost audio

RS: for aria-annotationtype, proposing that instead of "true" we have a
value like "Custom".

JN: Proposing another like "MoreInfo"

MK: Could make it aria-hasannotation then true makes sense

CG: Could be aria-annotation

<clown> <span aria-hasannotation="comment" aria-annotatedby="foo"> …. <p
id="foo">This is the annotations</p>

<clown> ?

CG: aria-hasannotation well say if there is an annotation and its type.
This is on the element that is annotated.
... aria-annotatedby would point to the annotation.

<richardschwerdtfeger> <span aria-hasannotation=“insertion”><span
aria-hasannotation="comment" aria-annotatedby="foo">Some
text</span></span> …. <p id="foo">

CG: Annotations may not be in the DOM at the time doc is loaded, eg,
Word online may have ref to a footnote but foot note is loaded on demand.

<cgallello> <span aria-hasannotation="comment footnote"
aria-annotatedby="commentspan1 footnotespan1">

CG: could put multiple annotation types on the aria-hasannotation attrib

and the multiple ids and they would need to be in same order.

CG: that was proposed.

<cgallello> <span aria-hasannotation="comment "
aria-annotatedby="commentspan1"> <span aria-hasannotation="footnote"
aria-annotatedby="footnotespan1">

CG: alternatively could wrap w/multiple spans

RS: Better to use the layered spans

MK: If you have a space delimted list, then making a mod, e.g., deleting
onw of the annotations, would require modifying the attrib, which would
be unreliable.

RS: do we need a false?

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-invalid


Joanie: Convenient for scripting for turning it off; equals undefined.

*RESOLUTION: s/CS:/CS:/*

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: add aria-hasannotation attribute with
values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion,
modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one
value at a time

<richardschwerdtfeger> *ACTION:* jcraig add aria-hasannotation attribute
with values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion,
modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one
value at a time [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1454 - Add aria-hasannotation attribute with
values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion,
modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one
value at a time [on James Craig - due 2014-06-23].

<clown> Note that the email for that action will go to just the private
list.

RS: should it refer to one or multiple refs in aria-annotatedby?

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-annotatedby where it takes
IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element has
aria-hasannotation

<richardschwerdtfeger> *ACTION:* jcraig add aria-annotatedby where it
takes IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element
has aria-hasannotation [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<SteveF> janina:rich
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Jun/0045.html

<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Jun/0045.html>

<SteveF> results updated and at risk email sent

<MichaelC> actio: jcraig to add aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS
as a value and must only be applied when that same element has
aria-hasannotation

<richardschwerdtfeger> *ACTION:* jcraig to add aria-annotatedby where it
takes IDREFS as a value and must only be applied when that same element
has aria-hasannotation [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1455 - Add aria-annotatedby where it takes
idrefs as a value and must only be applied when that same element has
aria-hasannotation [on James Craig - due 2014-06-23].

<richardschwerdtfeger> *ACTION:* galello provide defintions in action
1454 for each of the annotation types [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Error finding 'galello'. You can review and register
nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users%3E.>

<richardschwerdtfeger> *ACTION:* gallello provide defintions in action
1454 for each of the annotation types [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1456 - Provide defintions in action 1454 for
each of the annotation types [on Christopher Gallello - due 2014-06-23].

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: close issue 655 with actions 1454-1456

<clown> FWIW: bugzilla about annotaions for mapping guides:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26106



    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* galello provide defintions in action 1454 for each of
the annotation types [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* gallello provide defintions in action 1454 for each of
the annotation types [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action05]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jcraig add aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS as a
value and must only be applied when that same element has
aria-hasannotation [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jcraig add aria-hasannotation attribute with values:
comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion,
modification, true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one
value at a time [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action01]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jcraig to add aria-annotatedby where it takes IDREFS
as a value and must only be applied when that same element has
aria-hasannotation [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2014/06/16-aria-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version
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$Date: 2014-06-16 18:36:32 $

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Default Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina, SteveF, 
+1.541.678.aaaa, +1.603.882.aabb, Matt_King, Joanie_Diggs, Jon_Gunderson, 
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Chris_Gallello, James_Nurthen, LJWatson, 
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+1.603.882.aabb Matt_King Joanie_Diggs Jon_Gunderson Joseph_Scheuhammer 
Chris_Gallello James_Nurthen LJWatson +1.215.518.aacc [Microsoft]
Found Date: 16 Jun 2014
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Received on Monday, 16 June 2014 18:41:33 UTC