Re: [Media] MAUR Comments from SKI

Thanks for these comments Janina.  I will review and have suggested changes
ready for the meeting on the 16th.  Note that I may need to take that
meeting from a coffee shop or something :(

On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:

> Colleagues:
>
> Attached here are comments provided by Josh Miele of Smith-Kettlewell
> Institute.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>                         sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>                 Email:  janina@rednote.net
>
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair,  Protocols & Formats     http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
>         Indie UI                        http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Joshua A. Miele" <jam@ski.org>
> To: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:16:55 -0800
> Subject: Re: Two introductions on video mobile accessibility
> Janina:
>
> Here are my notes from our conversation earlier this week. I will try to
> send the list of terminology in a few days.
>
> Thanks again for a great conversation, and for being open to my feedback.
> Also nice to reconnect!
>
> --JAM
>
> 3.1 intro should not reference any of the stylistic preferences or
> guidelines for description (e.g., voicing, objectivity, timing), but should
> reference existing guidelines such as the DCMP description key.
>
> There is a list of different description approaches in the intro. What are
> the items in this list. Should it be a definition list?
>
> In addition to talking about monolithic description tracks, please talk
> about atomic description where individual description clips are synced with
> video.
>
> What about DV4. Does it really have to be real human speech? What about
> clips vs track?
>
> If DV5 and DV6 regarding independent volume controls for program and
> descriptive audio are requirements, then Open Description does not comply
>
> DV12 seems funny. Why address this specific buggy behavior? It seems like
> there are lots of undesirable behaviors we could call out, but this should
> not be a list of possible programming errors.
>
> What about multiple, simultaneous description tracks, such as might be
> desirable for different tracks voicing different information types, or for
> subtitled films where different voices would read different characters, and
> describer of visual elements; might want these voices in separate locations.
>
> TVD requirements talk a lot about UA/ST TTS options to be supported. There
> is significant overlap here with DV list and extended requirements
>
> Discuss hybrid extended/inline case.
>
> Consider content navigation by description element Is this what 4.2
> Granularity level control for structural navigation is getting at?
>
>
> Structural opinion about this document: the lists of requirements [dv]
> [td], pcc[, etc, should be marked up as lists or otherwise
>
> On 2/9/2015 12:28 PM, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
>> Hi, Josh:
>>
>> 1PM Pacific Tuesday would be 4PM Eastern, and that works perfectly for
>> me. Do you want to call me? Best number is:
>>
>> +1 202 494 7040
>>
>> Looking forward to catching up with you.
>>
>> Janina
>>
>> Joshua A. Miele writes:
>>
>>> Janina:
>>>
>>> Thanks for following up -- I'd love to have a talk. I do have some
>>> thoughts
>>> about the document and have been slammed, so haven't had time to write
>>> about
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Any chance we could schedule a call Tuesday, 2/10 at 1:00 Pacific?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --JAM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/9/2015 9:39 AM, Janina Sajka wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, Josh:
>>>>
>>>> Just a quick resend of my email from the past week following up on the
>>>> W3C Media Accessibility User Requirements document.
>>>>
>>>> Have you had opportunity to review it? Should we chat sometime soon?
>>>> Please let me know what works for you.
>>>>
>>>> tia
>>>>
>>>> Janina
>>>>
>>>> Janina Sajka writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Josh:
>>>>>
>>>>> We've not managed to have the telephone conversation we exchanged email
>>>>> about, but I have good opportunity to do so over the next couple weeks.
>>>>> Did you find items we should discuss? Do you want to propose some times
>>>>> to talk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best days for me are Tuesdays and Fridays. Mondays are also pretty good
>>>>> for me, Wednesdays and Thursdays not so good. Let me know what might
>>>>> work for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Janina
>>>>>
>>>>> Judy Brewer writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Josh, Janina,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you manage to connect yet on the Media User Accessibility
>>>>>> Requirements?
>>>>>> That work is coming to a close soon so we should capture your input,
>>>>>> Josh,
>>>>>> if you think we're missing some things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Josh and Philippe, do you both have any time on Friday, afternoon
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Philippe and me, morning for Josh, when we could talk for half an
>>>>>> hour to
>>>>>> introduce Josh to the WebVTT and Timed Text work going on here at
>>>>>> W3C? For
>>>>>> instance, would 10am Pacific, 1pm Eastern, be possible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Judy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/8/2015 8:02 PM, Joshua A. Miele wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Judy -- thank you for the intros!
>>>>>>> Philippe -- I look forward to speaking with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Janina:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's really great to be back in touch!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks so much for sharing the link to the MAUR. I will not be able
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> make the scheduled meeting on Monday, but I am extremely excited to
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> the opportunity to provide feedback for this document. I have already
>>>>>>> given it a quick look and it has set my thought wheels in motion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure if you're familiar with YouDescribe -- a description
>>>>>>> tool we
>>>>>>> have been developing here at Smith-Kettlewell -- but it brings a
>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>> these issues out of the theoretical and into the concrete. Based on
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>> feedback about our admittedly rudimentary feature set, I think I
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> few things to contribute to the MAUR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can check it out at:
>>>>>>> http://youdescribe.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think it might be helpful for me to review the document a little
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> closely, and then maybe have a realtime conversation with you,
>>>>>>> Janina. I
>>>>>>> want to make sure my feedback is valuable, so I'd like to chat about
>>>>>>> stuff
>>>>>>> a little before committing detailed comments to text.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the things I'd like to discuss is the separation of
>>>>>>> traditional
>>>>>>> (i.e., inline) description versus extended description. our tool
>>>>>>> allows
>>>>>>> for both types of description in any given video, and I think they
>>>>>>> are not
>>>>>>> as different as this document might make them seem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd also like to discuss the assumption that a description track is a
>>>>>>> monolithic audio track -- we do it with individual audio clips for
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>> atomic bit of description, and we think its important to include this
>>>>>>> concept in the enumeration of use cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd love to talk before going much further in my feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm really sorry, but tomorrow and Monday are really tight. Any
>>>>>>> chance we
>>>>>>> can schedule some time next week? I'm available on Wednesday morning
>>>>>>> (Pacific -- early afternoon eastern). Let me know if that might work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks so much for allowing me to discuss this with you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --JAM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/8/2015 1:06 PM, Janina Sajka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello, Josh:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Great to be in communication with you again, and Happy New Year to
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I welcome your perspectives on our Media Accessibility User
>>>>>>>> Requirements
>>>>>>>> document. We do believe we're pretty complete, but we also did not
>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>> great emphasis on viewing the issues from a mobile perspective. So,
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> input would be most welcome, even this late in our process.
>>>>>>>> Certainly,
>>>>>>>> we don't want to publish something less than the best thinking
>>>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The latest editor's draft of the MAUR is at:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://w3c.github.io/pfwg/media-accessibility-reqs/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our next scheduled teleconference on this document is this coming
>>>>>>>> Monday, January 12 at 4PM Boston / 1PM San Francisco. If you can
>>>>>>>> join
>>>>>>>> the call, that would be fabulous. I'll cc you when I send the agenda
>>>>>>>> Friday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the telecon doesn't work for you, please let me know how we can
>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>> get your input. I'm happy to have an individual call with you, if
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> would be better. I look forward to talking with you soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Janina
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Judy Brewer writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Josh! And happy New Year!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In December we were talking about some work you were doing at
>>>>>>>>> Smith-Kettlewell on video mobile accessibility, and how that might
>>>>>>>>> relate to
>>>>>>>>> two things under development in Web standards at W3C.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here are two introductions -- or rather one re-introduction and a
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> intro
>>>>>>>>> -- that are both timely for the beginning of January.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The re-introduction:
>>>>>>>>> Janina Sajka is wrapping up work on the Media Accessibility User
>>>>>>>>> Requirements (MAUR) document through the Media Accessibility Group
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> HTML Accessibility Task Force. They're close to publishing a final
>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>> of that, but I think you and she should talk to make sure that the
>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>> requirements that you've been working with are covered. And
>>>>>>>>> actually,
>>>>>>>>> there's a Media Accessibility Group meeting this coming Monday,
>>>>>>>>> January 12
>>>>>>>>> that might be good for you to visit, if you're available then.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Janina, I don't have links handy for the latest editor's draft of
>>>>>>>>> MAUR, or
>>>>>>>>> the Media group's meeting time&   coordinates for Monday. Could you
>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>> send those to Josh? (And also please copy me as I'd like to take a
>>>>>>>>> look at
>>>>>>>>> the latest.) And Josh my suggestion would be that you talk with
>>>>>>>>> Janina
>>>>>>>>> rather quickly, if your schedule allows, so that you can jointly
>>>>>>>>> assess
>>>>>>>>> whether or not the requirements you've been researching are
>>>>>>>>> adequately
>>>>>>>>> covered.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The new introduction:
>>>>>>>>> Philippe le Hegaret is Interaction Domain Lead for W3C (sort of
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> my role
>>>>>>>>> for WAI, except he does it for HTML&   a ton of other Web
>>>>>>>>> specifications).
>>>>>>>>> One of his working groups is working on both WebVTT and Timed
>>>>>>>>> Text. We
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to make sure that the requirements that we've captured in MAUR are
>>>>>>>>> reflected
>>>>>>>>> as much as possible in WebVTT and Timed Text, and I think there
>>>>>>>>> was a
>>>>>>>>> particular feature compatibility issue -- perhaps how to handle
>>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>> captioning streams and/or multiple video description streams, or
>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> where I think this intersected with an issue that Philippe and I
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> tentatively identified a while back as a possible gap.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So Josh and Philippe, my suggestion would be that we figure out a
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> talk in the next week or two. But it would probably be helpful to
>>>>>>>>> exchange
>>>>>>>>> some info up front by email. Josh, do you recall more details
>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>>>>> particular requirements and/or feature(s) that you mentioned
>>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> when we spoke in December?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And actually, these discussions about requirements and
>>>>>>>>> implementations
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> related, so we might want to keep the thread going between both
>>>>>>>>> areas.
>>>>>>>>> Thoughts welcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks and best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Judy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Judy Brewer
>>>>>>>>> Director, Web Accessibility Initiative
>>>>>>>>> at the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
>>>>>>>>> 32 Vassar St. Room G-526, MIT/CSAIL
>>>>>>>>> Cambridge MA 02149 USA
>>>>>>>>> www.w3.org/WAI/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Judy Brewer
>>>>>> Director, Web Accessibility Initiative
>>>>>> at the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
>>>>>> 32 Vassar St. Room G-526, MIT/CSAIL
>>>>>> Cambridge MA 02149 USA
>>>>>> www.w3.org/WAI/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>>>>>                         sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>>>>>                 Email:  janina@rednote.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org
>>>>>
>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>>>>> Chair,  Protocols&  Formats     http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
>>>>>         Indie UI                        http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Joshua A. Miele, Ph.D., Director
>>> The Smith-Kettlewell Video Description Research and Development Center
>>> 2318 Fillmore St.
>>> San Francisco, CA 94115
>>>
>>> Phone: 415/345-2113
>>> E-Mail: jam@ski.org
>>> Web: http://www.vdrdc.org
>>> Twitter: @VDRDC
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Shane McCarron
Managing Director, Applied Testing and Technology, Inc.