Re: copy-write question

[image: image.png] <grin>
[alt: Bliss symbol for happiness]

Thank you Russell!

To close the loop, will our specification need to reference the CC-BY-SA,
or is it, as I suspect, the responsibility of the helper application(s) to
reference the CC-BY-SA in the helper application(s) that are using the
actual symbols? Our current draft
<https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/index.html#symbol-explanation>
states:
*3.6 symbol*3.6.1 Description
<https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/index.html#description-4>

The symbol attribute identifies the concept for symbols.

The symbol attribute accepts a numeric reference number.

A personalization agent can then load alternative symbols that the user is
familiar with so they do not have to learn new symbols for different
applications.
EDITOR'S NOTE

For a list of current reference numbers please refer to our data-symbol
wiki page
<https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/About-Data-Symbol>.
The reference numbers are the same references numbers used in Bliss (BCI
numbers). Here is a link to the copyright licensing from Bliss
<http://www.blissymbolics.org/index.php/licensing>.
Question: is this sufficient copyright (copy-left) notice?

Thanks again!

JF

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:59 AM Russell <russell@blissymbolics.org> wrote:

>
> Yes - thank you John, this makes things very clear. BCI is fine with this
> usage of the BCI-AV reference numbers.
>
> Russell
>
> On 2019-08-22 12:51 p.m., Charles LaPierre wrote:
>
> Excellent recap of what we are proposing John, this is also my
> understanding as well.
>
> Thanks
> EOM
> Charles LaPierre
> Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
> Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
> Skype: charles_lapierre
>
>
> On Aug 22, 2019, at 9:41 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mats,
>
> If I may...
>
> Our desire is to use the BCI-AV# numbers as a taxonomic reference to the
> definitions you have <http://www.blissymbolics.org/index.php/resources>.
> We will be using the numbers as attribute values in the HTML code that web
> authors could apply to their web-pages or applications.
>
> So, for example, the profession of *architect* currently has the BCI-AV#
> of *12412*, along with the definition of "person + to plan + building:
> person who designs buildings" (and the BCI_AV# of *21343* maps to the
> term *excellent *and the definition of "excellence + description
> indicator")
>
> In HTML, we could then envision (and what we are proposing) code that
> looked like this:
>
> <p>Joseph is a <span data-symbol="21343">excellent</span> <span
> data-symbol="12412">architect</span>.</p>
>
> Helper agents or stand-alone tools would then be able to further process
> the code above, and overlay or otherwise re-write the page contents (in
> whole or in part) using symbols.
> *(NOTE: I am just learning about how to use Bliss symbols, and so my
> example my not be 100% correct syntactically, but hopefully it is
> illustrative enough for you to understand the proposal)*
>
> Internally, we all believe that more often than not, the symbols used by
> those helper applications will in fact be Bliss symbols, but we also leave
> open the possibility that other legacy symbol sets could map their symbols
> against the definitions that Bliss have provided, but then furnish their
> alternative symbols instead.
>
> (My personal suspicion then is that it would be *the helper applications*
> or *stand-alone tools* that would be using the actual symbols, and thus
> *they* would need to declare the Copy-Left/Creative Commons attribution
> (cc-by) - we simply want to use your numbers as a stable publicly available
> reference.)
>
> And so while Bliss essentially provides "4 columns" of data (number, term,
> definition, symbol) we are asking to use, in a normative way, the first
> three columns (number, term, definition) to be our taxonomy of record, and
> leave it to helper applications to map the numbers to appropriate symbols -
> whether Bliss symbols or others.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> JF
> --
> *John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
> Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
> deque.com
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:55 AM Mats L <m.lundalv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>> I hope Russell can give you a quick and proper reply to your questions,
>> but my guess would be that his "no" answer was to your question to the
>> numbers being copyright restricted, rather than to whether someone could
>> use your specification with them for "for profit" products. So probably a
>> bit of confusion there.
>>
>> If you stick to the CC-BY-SA license for the Blissymbolics lexicon
>> resources as a whole it does not restrict usage of any kind as long as the
>> same freedoms and restrictions are respected for derivative resources (free
>> use + BY=attribution, and SA=Share Alike). I.e. you can not turn or
>> directly bundle the resource into proprietary products.
>>
>> Just for my understanding:
>> I haven't looked further at how you plan to use the numbering. The
>> numbers in ID numbers in themselves would be meaningless, so I suppose you
>> intend to use them with some kind of reference to the concept gloss words
>> and definitions. Is that right? If so, how will this reference be done?
>> Ideally such a reference should also include the so called "Derivation" for
>> each Bliss concept, as the gloss words in themselves will quite often not
>> be unambiguous.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mats
>>
>>
>> Den tors 22 aug. 2019 kl 17:19 skrev lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Russell
>>> What time frame do you think it will take to get a decisions if we can
>>> use the BCI *numbers* in the specification in keeping with the w3c
>>> patent policy at  https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy
>>>
>>> We would need the licence to be in a stable url to be able to use it in
>>> our specification.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Lisa Seeman
>>>
>>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 19:19:32 +0300 *Russell
>>> <russell@blissymbolics.org <russell@blissymbolics.org>>* wrote ----
>>>
>>> Hi Lisa,
>>>
>>> Well, that is a question that has never been asked before! My initial
>>> reaction would be "no" but let me run it by the board just in case.
>>>
>>> Russell
>>>
>>> On 2019-08-20 7:03 a.m., lisa.seeman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Russell
>>>
>>> Thanks for getting back to us so quickly.
>>>
>>> We are just talking about using the BCI reference number. Not the actual
>>> symbols.
>>> We need people to be able to use the specification for profit
>>> applications without paying royalties.
>>>
>>> Are the BCI numbers subject to copywrite and if so can people make a
>>> "for profit" product that uses them (such as a web page) royalty free?
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Lisa Seeman
>>>
>>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 18:42:27 +0300 *Russell
>>> <russell@blissymbolics.org> <russell@blissymbolics.org>* wrote ----
>>>
>>> Hi Lisa,
>>>
>>> The licensing information can be found at:
>>>
>>> http://blissymbolics.org/index.php/licensing
>>>
>>> If you have any further questions about it, I am currently the person to
>>> talk to. Attribution would be the only requirement, I think.
>>>
>>> For ISO codes, there is an older ISO 8859 encoding but it is no longer
>>> used or kept up to date. A proposal for a Unicode encoding is in a very
>>> advanced stage and hopefully that will become formalized very soon. There
>>> are some technical issues with how indicators are overlaid on symbols that
>>> is holding things up a bit but I am optimistic that this obstacle will be
>>> overcome very soon. However, the new Unicode encoding will consist of
>>> Bliss-characters - ie the building blocks of the language - and thus not
>>> contain every Bliss-word but only those words that are also
>>> Bliss-characters. So for a numbering system that refers to all Bliss-words,
>>> the BCI-AV numbers are the ones to use. It is by far the most widely used
>>> indexing. As far as other possible ISO standards such as 7001 or 7010 but
>>> for complete pictographic/ideographic languages, I'm not even aware of a
>>> standard let alone Bliss being part of it.
>>>
>>> Russell
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2019-08-19 11:06 a.m., lisa.seeman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Russell!
>>>
>>> We are currently hoping to use BCI numbers as references options in our
>>> specification. See  #symbol-explanation
>>> <https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/#symbol-explanation>
>>> Is there any copy-write involved? What licence would that be under and
>>> is there a web link to it?
>>>
>>> Also do you know if any symbol sets have ISO codes?
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Lisa Seeman
>>>
>>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
*​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com