Re: copy-write question

Hi Mats,

If I may...

Our desire is to use the BCI-AV# numbers as a taxonomic reference to the
definitions you have <http://www.blissymbolics.org/index.php/resources>. We
will be using the numbers as attribute values in the HTML code that web
authors could apply to their web-pages or applications.

So, for example, the profession of *architect* currently has the BCI-AV# of
*12412*, along with the definition of "person + to plan + building: person
who designs buildings" (and the BCI_AV# of *21343* maps to the term *excellent
*and the definition of "excellence + description indicator")

In HTML, we could then envision (and what we are proposing) code that
looked like this:

<p>Joseph is a <span data-symbol="21343">excellent</span> <span
data-symbol="12412">architect</span>.</p>

Helper agents or stand-alone tools would then be able to further process
the code above, and overlay or otherwise re-write the page contents (in
whole or in part) using symbols.
*(NOTE: I am just learning about how to use Bliss symbols, and so my
example my not be 100% correct syntactically, but hopefully it is
illustrative enough for you to understand the proposal)*

Internally, we all believe that more often than not, the symbols used by
those helper applications will in fact be Bliss symbols, but we also leave
open the possibility that other legacy symbol sets could map their symbols
against the definitions that Bliss have provided, but then furnish their
alternative symbols instead.

(My personal suspicion then is that it would be *the helper applications*
or *stand-alone tools* that would be using the actual symbols, and thus
*they* would need to declare the Copy-Left/Creative Commons attribution
(cc-by) - we simply want to use your numbers as a stable publicly available
reference.)

And so while Bliss essentially provides "4 columns" of data (number, term,
definition, symbol) we are asking to use, in a normative way, the first
three columns (number, term, definition) to be our taxonomy of record, and
leave it to helper applications to map the numbers to appropriate symbols -
whether Bliss symbols or others.

I hope this helps.

JF
-- 
*John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:55 AM Mats L <m.lundalv@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lisa,
>
> I hope Russell can give you a quick and proper reply to your questions,
> but my guess would be that his "no" answer was to your question to the
> numbers being copyright restricted, rather than to whether someone could
> use your specification with them for "for profit" products. So probably a
> bit of confusion there.
>
> If you stick to the CC-BY-SA license for the Blissymbolics lexicon
> resources as a whole it does not restrict usage of any kind as long as the
> same freedoms and restrictions are respected for derivative resources (free
> use + BY=attribution, and SA=Share Alike). I.e. you can not turn or
> directly bundle the resource into proprietary products.
>
> Just for my understanding:
> I haven't looked further at how you plan to use the numbering. The numbers
> in ID numbers in themselves would be meaningless, so I suppose you intend
> to use them with some kind of reference to the concept gloss words and
> definitions. Is that right? If so, how will this reference be done? Ideally
> such a reference should also include the so called "Derivation" for each
> Bliss concept, as the gloss words in themselves will quite often not be
> unambiguous.
>
> Cheers,
> Mats
>
>
> Den tors 22 aug. 2019 kl 17:19 skrev lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>:
>
>> Hi Russell
>> What time frame do you think it will take to get a decisions if we can
>> use the BCI *numbers* in the specification in keeping with the w3c
>> patent policy at  https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy
>>
>> We would need the licence to be in a stable url to be able to use it in
>> our specification.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Lisa Seeman
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 19:19:32 +0300 *Russell
>> <russell@blissymbolics.org <russell@blissymbolics.org>>* wrote ----
>>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>> Well, that is a question that has never been asked before! My initial
>> reaction would be "no" but let me run it by the board just in case.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> On 2019-08-20 7:03 a.m., lisa.seeman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Russell
>>
>> Thanks for getting back to us so quickly.
>>
>> We are just talking about using the BCI reference number. Not the actual
>> symbols.
>> We need people to be able to use the specification for profit
>> applications without paying royalties.
>>
>> Are the BCI numbers subject to copywrite and if so can people make a "for
>> profit" product that uses them (such as a web page) royalty free?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Lisa Seeman
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 18:42:27 +0300 *Russell
>> <russell@blissymbolics.org> <russell@blissymbolics.org>* wrote ----
>>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>> The licensing information can be found at:
>>
>> http://blissymbolics.org/index.php/licensing
>>
>> If you have any further questions about it, I am currently the person to
>> talk to. Attribution would be the only requirement, I think.
>>
>> For ISO codes, there is an older ISO 8859 encoding but it is no longer
>> used or kept up to date. A proposal for a Unicode encoding is in a very
>> advanced stage and hopefully that will become formalized very soon. There
>> are some technical issues with how indicators are overlaid on symbols that
>> is holding things up a bit but I am optimistic that this obstacle will be
>> overcome very soon. However, the new Unicode encoding will consist of
>> Bliss-characters - ie the building blocks of the language - and thus not
>> contain every Bliss-word but only those words that are also
>> Bliss-characters. So for a numbering system that refers to all Bliss-words,
>> the BCI-AV numbers are the ones to use. It is by far the most widely used
>> indexing. As far as other possible ISO standards such as 7001 or 7010 but
>> for complete pictographic/ideographic languages, I'm not even aware of a
>> standard let alone Bliss being part of it.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>>
>> On 2019-08-19 11:06 a.m., lisa.seeman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Russell!
>>
>> We are currently hoping to use BCI numbers as references options in our
>> specification. See  #symbol-explanation
>> <https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/#symbol-explanation>
>> Is there any copy-write involved? What licence would that be under and is
>> there a web link to it?
>>
>> Also do you know if any symbol sets have ISO codes?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Lisa Seeman
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>