Re: ECB: On-line Payments Remain Fragmented

On 2019-12-09 15:05, Adrian Hope-Bailie wrote:
> Hi Anders,
> 
> You said "It is obvious that a more complete standard is needed in order to succeed." but in response to Rouslan's question of "What are the components of the more complete standard in your mind?" you seem to have ignored the question and only talked about high-level and unrelated issues.

I would rather say that my perspective have changed over the years.  If there is no authoritative place/organization for carrying out a task, the rest becomes slightly less interesting.

Anyway, being able to call a native App from the Web is indeed a "component" which I have resolved it in an unusual way.  I would prefer something that is more standard.

> 
> Can you be specific about what you consider missing at the front-end?

If we stick to SEPA credit transfer the following seems to be missing:
- A security model
- An information flow model that is matched with the security model
- A user interaction model
- A P2P model
- A model for omnichannel use including POS

One might say that Open Banking provides some of this but compared to the already deployed solutions out there it doesn't look particularly convincing.

The originators' of SEPA credit transfer have just published their roadmap/strategy to the problem:
https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/kb/file/2019-11/EPC%20269-19v1.0%20Mobile%20Initiated%20SEPA%20%28Instant%29%20Credit%20Transfer%20Interoperability%20Guidance%20%28MSCT%20IG%29.pdf
How you could transform this into an interoperable specification is beyond my limited imagination.

For card payments interoperability exist at the POS and on-line although the latter is all over the map.

Anders


> 
> Adrian
> 
> On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 at 08:48, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On 2019-12-08 10:56, Rouslan Solomakhin wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 2:03 AM Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     Dear Chairs and WG members,
>      >
>      >     This recent speech by an ECB board member echoes what I have been saying for quite some time:
>      > https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/key/date/2019/html/ecb.sp191126~5230672c11.en.html
>      >
>      >           "progress at the back-end has not translated into similar progress at the front-end, which
>      >            remains fragmented, with no European solution emerging for point-of-sale and online payments"
>      >
>      >     Although not useless, PaymentRequest does not address this problem. It is obvious that a more complete standard is needed in order to succeed.
>      >
>      > What are the components of the more complete standard in your mind?
> 
>     ECB's remark should be seen in the context of SEPA credit transfer which is a Eurozone-wide payment system.  For card payments (with the major brands) there is EMV maintained by EMVCo.  There are no counterparts to EMV and EMVCo for SEPA credit transfer dealing with the "frontend".
> 
>     So it begins with an unresolved organizational issue.  Personally, I believe this will remain a problem because nowadays most of the core technology is defined by platform vendors like Google and Apple.
> 
>     Sticking to high-level issues, I believe that my claim that there is a desire to unify on-line and physical-world payments indeed is valid.  As far as I know the Chinese payment giants already have that although I don't know the details.  This has major implications on system design.
> 
>     Then there are some W3C peculiarities as well: I mailed https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/web/calling-apps-from-the-web.pdf to some of the leading folks at Google and Mozilla and asked for a commentary.  Apparently I stepped on some very sensitive toes because I got ZERO response.
> 
>     Although I'm surely biased, the combination of Open Banking APIs and "EMV on steroids" seems like a [technically] pretty good candidate for addressing this "standards deficit".
> 
>     Anders
> 
> 
>      >
>      >        I'm well aware of that this is out of scope for the W3C.
>      >
>      >     It is worth noting that the ECB use the terms "frontend" and "backend" which have been a stumbling block for the now dormant credit-transfer WG item.  ISO 20022 is primarily backend and thus have little to do with PaymentRequest which is frontend.  Of course the front- and back-ends must meet somewhere but that is actually one of the more complex topics.
>      >
>      >     Regards
>      >     Anders
>      >     non-Member
>      >
> 
>

Received on Monday, 9 December 2019 15:23:14 UTC