Re: CURIEs (was Re: Several minor problems in the grammar for the functional-style syntax)

Bijan Parsia wrote:
>>
>> The text currently says:
>>
>> [[[
>> When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, and that host
>> language supports XML Namespaces, prefix values MUST be able to be
>> defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host
>> languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition
>> mechanisms.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> ]]]
>>
>> My understanding is that you do not want to have namespace mechanisms in
>> OWL/XML.
> 
> ? We have namespaces, and have to. Every element in OWL/XML is in the
> OWL namespace. If someone wants to embed SVG or XHTML in annotations
> then they need namespaces as well. So we're stuck.
> 
> What I want to forbid is overloading the namespace for CURIE prefix
> declarations.
>

O.k. I understand

>> If so, OWL/XML it falls under the negation of the first
>> condition, doesn't it? Ie, if it does not use xmlns, then, well, the
>> obligation of using xmlns for prefix definition is simply not relevant.
> 
> See above.
> 
>>>        c) There should be a standard alternative declaration mechanism
>>> in XML, e.g.,:
>>>    <xml:curieAbbr prefix=".." expansion="..."/>
>>
>> The current text says 'may' define its own. I do not think that this WG
>> should take a position on whether the CURIE spec should define a
>> standard alternative mechanism, because it is irrelevant for this WG (in
>> view of the previous point and if my assumption is correct on OWL/XML).
> 
> Your assumption is wrong. But even if it were correct, why should each
> XML format invent its own declaration mechanism?
> 
>> (Of course, Bijan Parsia, or the Un of M'ter, may decide to make such
>> comments!:-)
> 
> Sure. But I think it's relevant to this working group. It's the
> difference between using:
> 
>     <owl:curiePrefixDecl...
> 
> and
>     <xml:curiePrefixDecl..
> 
> I think that's a significant difference. Frankly, the CURIE spec is just
> punting (and badly) on a key aspect of CURIE use.
>

Yes. But I just do not believe that CURIE guys will have the
time/energy/etc to add something like that into, essentially, the xml
namespace in short notice. Ie, I would not rely on having
<xml:curiePrefixDecl> in the WG's lifetime. Therefore I do not believe
this is the battle this working group should pick up... OWL/XML should
define its own mechanism (whether it is a separate element or the
@prefix attribute, well, I must admit, I do not have strong feeling
either way. A separate element might be closer to the FS in spirit.).

P.S. A 'social' issue that we have to consider: the CURIE spec is owned
by the current XHTML2 working group. There will be a discussion at the
AC meeting, no later than today afternoon Amsterdam time, about the fate
of that working group. I just have no idea what the outcome will be, but
that might have practical effects on the CURIE spec, too (eg, if the
group is simply closed down). In other words, it may be the most
economical approach to indeed choose our own prefix grammar along the
lines outlined in one of the earlier mails for FS, MS, choose a mapping
of that on OWL/XML either way, and move on. Although it is part of my
job to synchronize with other work at W3C:-), this may indeed be the
best way forward:-(

Ivan

>> B.t.w., just as an info: the RDFa task force is currently discussing
>> adding a @prefix attribute with
>>
>> prefix="pr1:expansion1 pr2:expansion2 ..."
>>
>> that could be used on any element to define the prefixes for the dom
>> tree under this element. Ie, no separate element, just an attribute that
>> could be used anywhere. The TF is still not sure whether the separator
>> character will be ':' (like above) or '='.
> 
> That would work too, but is pretty much tuned for coping with text/html
> as a host language. If you look at RELAX NG and Schematron, they use
> elements for their namespace-in-content prefix declarations. I prefer
> that for a number of reasons, including ease of manipulation (i.e., not
> having to parse a microsyntax).
> 
> Cheers,
> Bijan.

-- 

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
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