- From: Bridget Almas <balmas@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 08:54:23 -0500
- To: Simon Rainer <Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at>, Benjamin Young <byoung@bigbluehat.com>, "public-openannotation@w3.org" <public-openannotation@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <309a60c9-b67c-2687-69b2-991224adfc59@gmail.com>
Hi Rainer, Yes, I think that's right. I too wonder what people think about the body structure :-) Best, Bridget On 12/10/19 2:28 AM, Simon Rainer wrote: > > Hi Bridget, > > > interesting. It's certainly a bit of a different approach to my > original thoughts, but could be pretty applicable... (And actually it > might be closer to what we are doing now internally right now, > although in a proprietary way). To summarize how I understand this > (and how I'd apply it to my case) - please correct me if I'm wrong: > you are essentially creating an annotation that's attached to "one end > of the arrow", as it were. And then there's a single body in > there, that essentially models the "arrow" (link relation + target). > > > In terms of mechanics, I think that would totally work for us, too. I > wonder what people's views are on the body structure, though. I.e. the > body being a graph that works like a target :-) In any case: IMO a > good pattern. > > > Cheers & thanks, > > Rainer > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Von:* Bridget Almas <balmas@gmail.com> > *Gesendet:* Montag, 9. Dezember 2019 22:45 > *An:* Benjamin Young; public-openannotation@w3.org > *Betreff:* Re: Expressing relations between targets? > > Hi Benjamin, > > > Sure. The use case is not exactly the same as Rainer's but I think it > has some similarities. Note that this was done with the OA data model > before it became the W3C model, so it's a little out of date that way > as well. > > > But anyway, the following is an annotation which reflects a user > annotating a bibliographic entry in a bibliographic dictionary. The > target of the annotation is the selection of the name Rhea in the > entry for the person entity named Cronus. The body of the annotation > is a graph which describes the bond between the resource identified by > the text "Rhea" with a Person entity with the uri for the Cronus > person entity (http://data.perseus.org/people/smith:cronus-1#this"). > > > To be more complete, under this model there would ideally be > > (1) an annotation which associated the text entry itself with the > person entity identifier for Cronus > > (2) an annotation which annotates the "Rhea" text with a uri for the > person entity for Rhea, > > (3) an annotation whose target is text selector for "He was married to > Rhea" and whose body is the graph of the relationship between the Rhea > entity and the Cronus entity > > > But we never got that far :-) > > > Best, > > Bridget > > > > { > "@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa-context-20130208.json", > "@id": "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1", > "annotatedBy": { > "@type": "foaf:Group", > "@id": "http://data.perseus.org/sosol/users/Andrew", > "foaf:member": [ > { > "foaf:name": "Jane Doe", > "@type": "foaf:person" > } > ] > }, > "@type": "oa:Annotation", > "dcterms:source": > "https://hypothes.is/api/annotations/18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg", > "dcterms:title": "http://data.perseus.org/people/smith:cronus-1#this > identifies Rhea as object of snap:IntimateRelationship relationship in > urn:cts:pdlrefwk:viaf88890045.003.perseus-eng1:C.cronus_1", > "annotatedAt": "2015-10-07T15:30:27.211185+00:00", > "motivatedBy": "oa:identifying", > "serializedBy": { > "@id": "https://hypothes.is", > "@type": "prov:SoftwareAgent" > }, > "hasTarget": { > "@id": "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#target-1", > "@type": "oa:SpecificResource", > "hasSelector": { > "@id": > "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#target-1-sel-1", > "@type": "oa:TextQuoteSelector", > "exact": "Rhea", > "prefix": "g the Titans. He was married to ", > "suffix": ",\n by whom he b" > }, > "hasSource": { > "@id": "urn:cts:pdlrefwk:viaf88890045.003.perseus-eng1:C.cronus_1" > } > }, > "hasBody": { > "@context": { > "snap": "http://onto.snapdrgn.net/snap#", > }, > "@graph": [ > { > "@id": > "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#rel-target", > "@type": "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#SpecificResource", > "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#hasSelector": { > "@id": > "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#target-1-sel-1", > "@type": "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#TextQuoteSelector", > "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#exact": "Rhea", > "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#prefix": "g the Titans. He was married to ", > "http://www.w3.org/ns/oa#suffix": ",\n by whom he b" > }, > "hasSource": { > "@id": > "urn:cts:pdlrefwk:viaf88890045.003.perseus-eng1:C.cronus_1" > } > }, > { > "@id": "http://data.perseus.org/people/smith:cronus-1#this", > "snap:has-bond": [ > "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#bond-1-1" > ] > }, > { > "@id": > "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#bond-1-1", > "@type": "snap:IntimateRelationship", > "snap:bond-with": { > "@id": > "urn:cite:perseus:pdljann.18IJy7d0QG2ztppbX3CCeg.1.1#rel-target" > } > } > ] > } > } > > On 12/9/19 3:54 PM, Benjamin Young wrote: >> Hey Bridget, >> >> I'd love to see an example of how y'all structured that >> annotation...legal or not. ;) >> >> Thanks! >> Benjamin >> >> -- >> >> http://bigbluehat.com/ >> >> http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Bridget Almas <balmas@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, December 9, 2019 1:09 PM >> *To:* public-openannotation@w3.org <public-openannotation@w3.org> >> *Subject:* Re: Expressing relations between targets? >> >> To add to this -- in Perseids (first with Hypothes.is and then with >> Plokamos) we did something similar, setting the annotation body to a >> graph that encoded the relationship using the SNAP ontology. It >> wasn't perfect, particularly because we embedded the graph directly >> in the annotation body rather than referencing it via URI, which >> wasn't really legal, but it did allow us to express the nature of the >> relationship. Happy to provide more details if you're interested. >> >> >> Bridget >> >> >> On 12/9/19 12:14 PM, Benjamin Young wrote: >>> Thanks for writing, Simon! >>> >>> At this point, I'd suggest being careful not to reinvent RDF inside >>> Web Annotation. Something like "A is the father of B" or similar is >>> already better expressed via much simpler RDF (assuming you have >>> identifiers for the things. Mixing that into the annotation model >>> starts to create all kinds of painful indirection. 😕 >>> >>> That said, I'm noting a lack of "directionality" when targeting >>> resources in Web Annotation. I'm not (yet) certain it's Web >>> Annotation's job to record that, just noting that it currently isn't >>> possible. Appendix D has the things that get close: >>> https://www.w3.org/TR/annotation-model/#sets-of-bodies-and-targets >>> But even so, I don't think there's a way to turn "Orestes killed >>> Aegisthus" into an annotation per se. >>> >>> It might be best to narrow in on the "textual editing part" and >>> explore potential needs in that context. Otherwise, RDF proper would >>> likely do a much cleaner job of expressing the things you note below. >>> >>> Happy to discuss further! >>> Benjamin >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://bigbluehat.com/ >>> >>> http://linkedin.com/in/benjaminyoung >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Simon Rainer <Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at> >>> <mailto:Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at> >>> *Sent:* Monday, December 9, 2019 8:28 AM >>> *To:* James Smith <jgsmith@gmail.com> <mailto:jgsmith@gmail.com> >>> *Cc:* public-openannotation@w3.org >>> <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org> <public-openannotation@w3.org> >>> <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org> >>> *Subject:* AW: Expressing relations between targets? >>> >>> Hi James, >>> >>> >>> I agree - we'd ideally want to identify the people via URIs. And >>> then the assertion "is father of" would be a statement between those >>> two entities. >>> >>> >>> However, within the annotation environment, the scenario is that >>> this would be like a note, made a human editor, on the text. So I'm >>> inclined to say that, we are indeed talking about a statement about >>> two strings of text - at least at this point in the workflow. >>> >>> >>> I guess the example is also not ideal here. The annotations might >>> just as well be highlighting two different text paragraphs, and the >>> annotator would drag an arrow between them saying "the author is >>> repeating him/herself here", or whatever. I.e. irrespective of what >>> ever "real world meaning" might be behind the arrow eventually, I'm >>> primarily interested in using WebAnno/Open Annotation to model the >>> textual editing part. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Rainer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *Von:* James Smith <jgsmith@gmail.com> <mailto:jgsmith@gmail.com> >>> *Gesendet:* Montag, 9. Dezember 2019 14:18 >>> *An:* Simon Rainer >>> *Cc:* public-openannotation@w3.org <mailto:public-openannotation@w3.org> >>> *Betreff:* Re: Expressing relations between targets? >>> How do we know who the text "Aegisthus" refers to? It's a name, so >>> it's identifying something, but who/what is the identity we >>> associate with the string "Aegisthus"? >>> >>> While we might all agree on whom we link the text to in our minds, >>> it might be helpful to add some context for the computer. I'd add >>> another property on the body that points to a dbpedia entry or other >>> unique URI that is useful in asserting the identity of the person >>> referenced in the text as "Aegisthus". Let's say it's >>> <dbpedia:Aegisthus>. The same could be done for "Orestes" with a >>> link (for the purposes of discussion) of <dbpedia:Orestes>. >>> >>> Once this is done, then it's a matter of asserting the >>> <dbpedia:Aegisthus> is related to <dbpedia:Orestes>. It's not about >>> the string "Aegisthus" having a familial relationship with the >>> string "Orestes", or that one annotation has a familial relationship >>> with another annotation, but about the person <dbpedia:Aegisthus> >>> having such a relationship with the person <dbpedia:Orestes>. They >>> just happen to be referenced as "Aegisthus" and "Orestes" in this >>> particular text. >>> >>> If we did make the relationship about the strings in the text, then >>> that relationship wouldn't be true for any other instances of the >>> strings "Aegisthus" and "Orestes" in this or any other text. It >>> would be about the two instances already highlighted. >>> >>> -- Jim >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 8:03 AM Simon Rainer <Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at >>> <mailto:Rainer.Simon@ait.ac.at>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear list, >>> >>> >>> I have a question regarding the possible use of the WebAnno >>> model for expressing a relationship between two targets. >>> >>> >>> My scenario is the following: >>> >>> >>> *) I have two text annotations that identify people. Each >>> annotation has a single target (the person name in >>> a TextQuoteSelector, and character offset in a >>> TextPositionSelector); and a single body (with purpose >>> "identifying"). >>> >>> *) I now want to create a third annotation that expresses a >>> relation between person A and B. (E.g. "A is the father of B" or >>> similar.) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My approach would be to model this third annotation like the >>> sample below. I.e. with: >>> >>> >>> *) two targets, each holding the ID of one person annotation >>> >>> *) a body with the relation tag ("is the father of") >>> >>> *) a motivation of "linking" >>> >>> >>> According to the definition for "linking", that's not correct >>> though. "Linking" is supposed to express a link between body and >>> all targets, rather than a link between the targets. In >>> addition, there's also no way to express directionality. >>> >>> >>> Does anyone have recommendations on how to tackle such a use >>> case with WebAnno? I realize that (some of) this may actually be >>> out of scope for the spec as such. In this case, I'd appreciate >>> any thoughts, opinions, and possible recommendations on a custom >>> extension pattern, if needed. >>> >>> >>> Cheers & thanks in advance, >>> >>> Rainer >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >>> { >>> "@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld", >>> "id": "#9ba844a7-e8ec-4127-ad12-1f7f16a240c6", >>> "type": "Annotation", >>> "motivation": "linking", >>> "body": [{ >>> "type": "TextualBody", >>> "value": "isRelatedTo" >>> }], >>> "target": [{ >>> "id": "#ce0ed291-766b-4763-8e91-90ce1d04e706" >>> }, { >>> "id": "#447d4bea-08dc-4bd0-ae51-31f5ed7a95a0" >>> }] >>> } >>> >>> >>> >>>
Received on Tuesday, 10 December 2019 13:54:31 UTC