Re: "cite" and 'author of a quote'

That is a good idea. Maybe we can start with a wiki page and see how it
goes: http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/wiki/Provenance

Paolo


On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> To dredge up the literal body discussion (and hopefully put it straight
> back to rest again!), one of the advantages of the resource centric
> approach taken in the current model is that additional information *of any
> sort* can be associated with the Annotation, Body and Target, and they can
> all be different for the same field.
>
> For example, the annotation is "created" by X, who found a comment by Y,
> on an article by Z.
> Thus the annotation's creator is X, the body's creator is Y, and the
> target's creator is Z.
>
> In vanilla annotation systems, where the comment always has the same
> provenance as the annotation, this isn't possible and there are many, many
> use cases for this pattern.
>
> To liberally scatter authoredBy around:
>
> {
>   "@type" : "oa:Annotation",
>   "authoredBy" : "Rob",
>   "hasBody" : {
>     "@type": "dctypes:Text",
>     "cnt:chars" : "This is Tom's comment",
>     "authoredBy" : "Tom"},
>   "hasTarget" : {
>     "@id" : "http://example.org/resource",
>     "authoredBy" : "Jane"}
> }
>
>
> And for situations where there's a SpecificResource involved, such as
> maintaining that the quote's author is Vannevar Bush (digital library folk:
> drink!) then the current model's separation of description and
> identification of the material is also crucial -- the creator of the quote
> (as identified by the SpecificResource) is Bush, the creator of the
> description for how to resolve that quotation is someone else.  Then add
> that the full Source Resource is a text book written by someone else, and
> we have completed the authorship circle very neatly.
>
>
> {
>   "@type" : "oa:Annotation",
>   "authoredBy" : "Rob",
>   "hasBody" : {
>     "@type": "dctypes:Text",
>     "cnt:chars" : "This is Tom's comment",
>     "authoredBy" : "Tom"},
>   "hasTarget" : {
>     "authoredBy": "Bush",
>     "hasSelector" : { ... }  // selection of Bush's quote in Jane's
> textbook
>     "hasSource" : {
>       "@id" : "http://example.org/digital-library-textbook",
>       "authoredBy" : "Jane"}
>   }
> }
>
> Now, the predicate to use for that authorship assertion is "just"
> metadata, but important metadata none-the-less.  I think we need to start
> capturing best practices (as also for license, rights, title/label, etc
> etc) in a companion document to the specification.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Paolo Ciccarese <
> paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Layla,
>> that is exactly why I was bringing this topic up as a separate one.
>> I think it all related to what we want to convey.
>>
>> If we annotate a fragment and we want to convey that is a quote by X, one
>> possibility is to have the body authored by X and maybe a motivation like
>> 'quoting' (not sure if oa:describing matches this specific case... and I
>> can't identify another one). Anybody as thoughts on this one?
>>
>>
>> In regards to provenance in general, I have many of those needs in
>> different projects and I complement OA with pav:authoredBy and other
>> properties (pav:createdWith, pav:importedBy ...) [see PAV links below].
>> These allow me to track richer provenance data at the body/target and even
>> annotation level.
>>
>> The approach is driven by pragmatic needs and completely generalizable.
>> However, it is happening outside the OA specs and I want to make clear it
>> is not a recommendation of the CG.
>>
>> In general terms, I would probably avoid to add to OA a lot of duplicate
>> provenance properties and I would just reuse PROV-O or PAV (that is build
>> on top of PROV-O, PROV-O compatible and a little less verbose).
>>
>> Paolo
>>
>> [PAV]
>> http://pav-ontology.googlecode.com/svn/tags/2.2.0/pav.html
>> http://www.jbiomedsem.com/content/4/1/37
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Leyla Jael García Castro <
>> leylajael@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Paolo, all
>>>
>>> Doug, do you want to keep track of the fact that the annotation target
>>>> is authored by Bush?
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course not sure what Doug wants to achieve, but I would be interested
>>> in the first case, keeping track of the original author of the quote. At
>>> http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#Provenance there are
>>> two roles, the author of the annotation and the serializator of the
>>> annotation. If we want to keep track of the original author none of those
>>> would work. What would be the way?
>>>
>>> On a second thought, the other case is also interesting
>>>
>>> Or annotating the quote in the target with an annotation that says that
>>>> Bush is the author?
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be adding an extra annotation saying that the quote is
>>> authored by Bush, but that "authored by" would no be an OA property, that
>>> would be the text/body of the annotation, right? And if we want to make it
>>> a property, then we should use a SemanticTag?
>>>
>>> Not sure if I am adding confusion, sorry.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Leyla
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paolo Ciccarese <
>>> paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ivan and Doug,
>>>> I believe the previous discussion 'Annotation Serializations' is
>>>> becoming a little dense and hard to follow.
>>>>
>>>> I am isolating here one of the topic of a previous email (
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2014Jan/0049.html) as I am trying to understand better:
>>>>
>>>> Ivan said:
>>>> >> I looked at your example, and, for the purpose of the discussion, I
>>>> >> did re-cast it into RDFa Lite. I *think* it is what you meant but
>>>> >> probably not exactly; I did remove the internal properties for Bush
>>>> >> because you annotate <http://example.com/sourcedoc.html> and not the
>>>> >> snippet and, I must admit, I was not sure how that 'cite' would
>>>> >> translate into OA (I am not sure it can, it may need some additional
>>>> >> properties).
>>>>
>>>> Doug said:
>>>> > Yeah, actually, unless I'm missing something, I think there should be
>>>> some
>>>> > way in the OA model to indicate the author(s) of a quote. This would
>>>> be
>>>> > most useful when the annotation is being viewed as a document itself,
>>>> > or when the source document is not actually available on the Web
>>>> > (behind a paywall, in an ebook or paper book, spoken during a
>>>> non-recorded
>>>> > or time-delayed presentation, or what have you), but the annotator
>>>> still
>>>> > wants to attribute it as much as possible (think of tweets about
>>>> conference
>>>> > presentations which contain quotes and a link to the speaker's
>>>> twitter id).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could you help me understanding a little better what you are referring
>>>> to for 'cite' and author of a quote and what you would like to accomplish
>>>> with OA?
>>>>
>>>> If I look at the <note> first snippet in the wiki
>>>> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/wiki/Serializations my
>>>> understanding is that Doug is annotating a quote in the document
>>>> http://example.com/sourcedoc.html . Therefore the target is a
>>>> particular snippet of that page and the author of that snippet is 'Vannevar
>>>> Bush'.
>>>>
>>>> If that is the case, the JSON-LD in the wiki
>>>> "hasTarget": "http://example.com/sourcedoc.html"
>>>> is not accurate as it referring to the whole document.
>>>> It should be
>>>>
>>>>  "hasTarget": {
>>>>         "@type" : "SpecificResource",
>>>>        "hasSource": "http://example.com/sourcedoc.html"
>>>>         "hasSelector" : {
>>>>             .. the quote ..
>>>>         }
>>>>     }
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doug, do you want to keep track of the fact that the annotation target
>>>> is authored by Bush? Or annotating the quote in the target with an
>>>> annotation that says that Bush is the author?
>>>>
>>>> Paolo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>>>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>>>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>>>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>>>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>>>> Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>> Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
>> +1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the
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>>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
http://www.paolociccarese.info/
Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
+1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee(s),
may contain information that is considered
to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or disclosed to
any other party without the permission of the sender.
If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
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