Re: "cite" and 'author of a quote'

Hi Layla,
that is exactly why I was bringing this topic up as a separate one.
I think it all related to what we want to convey.

If we annotate a fragment and we want to convey that is a quote by X, one
possibility is to have the body authored by X and maybe a motivation like
'quoting' (not sure if oa:describing matches this specific case... and I
can't identify another one). Anybody as thoughts on this one?


In regards to provenance in general, I have many of those needs in
different projects and I complement OA with pav:authoredBy and other
properties (pav:createdWith, pav:importedBy ...) [see PAV links below].
These allow me to track richer provenance data at the body/target and even
annotation level.

The approach is driven by pragmatic needs and completely generalizable.
However, it is happening outside the OA specs and I want to make clear it
is not a recommendation of the CG.

In general terms, I would probably avoid to add to OA a lot of duplicate
provenance properties and I would just reuse PROV-O or PAV (that is build
on top of PROV-O, PROV-O compatible and a little less verbose).

Paolo

[PAV]
http://pav-ontology.googlecode.com/svn/tags/2.2.0/pav.html
http://www.jbiomedsem.com/content/4/1/37




On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Leyla Jael García Castro <
leylajael@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Paolo, all
>
> Doug, do you want to keep track of the fact that the annotation target is
>> authored by Bush?
>
>
> Of course not sure what Doug wants to achieve, but I would be interested
> in the first case, keeping track of the original author of the quote. At
> http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#Provenance there are
> two roles, the author of the annotation and the serializator of the
> annotation. If we want to keep track of the original author none of those
> would work. What would be the way?
>
> On a second thought, the other case is also interesting
>
> Or annotating the quote in the target with an annotation that says that
>> Bush is the author?
>
>
> That would be adding an extra annotation saying that the quote is authored
> by Bush, but that "authored by" would no be an OA property, that would be
> the text/body of the annotation, right? And if we want to make it a
> property, then we should use a SemanticTag?
>
> Not sure if I am adding confusion, sorry.
>
> Cheers,
> Leyla
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paolo Ciccarese <
> paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Ivan and Doug,
>> I believe the previous discussion 'Annotation Serializations' is becoming
>> a little dense and hard to follow.
>>
>> I am isolating here one of the topic of a previous email (
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2014Jan/0049.html) as I am trying to understand better:
>>
>> Ivan said:
>> >> I looked at your example, and, for the purpose of the discussion, I
>> >> did re-cast it into RDFa Lite. I *think* it is what you meant but
>> >> probably not exactly; I did remove the internal properties for Bush
>> >> because you annotate <http://example.com/sourcedoc.html> and not the
>> >> snippet and, I must admit, I was not sure how that 'cite' would
>> >> translate into OA (I am not sure it can, it may need some additional
>> >> properties).
>>
>> Doug said:
>> > Yeah, actually, unless I'm missing something, I think there should be
>> some
>> > way in the OA model to indicate the author(s) of a quote. This would be
>> > most useful when the annotation is being viewed as a document itself,
>> > or when the source document is not actually available on the Web
>> > (behind a paywall, in an ebook or paper book, spoken during a
>> non-recorded
>> > or time-delayed presentation, or what have you), but the annotator
>> still
>> > wants to attribute it as much as possible (think of tweets about
>> conference
>> > presentations which contain quotes and a link to the speaker's twitter
>> id).
>>
>>
>> Could you help me understanding a little better what you are referring to
>> for 'cite' and author of a quote and what you would like to accomplish with
>> OA?
>>
>> If I look at the <note> first snippet in the wiki
>> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/wiki/Serializations my
>> understanding is that Doug is annotating a quote in the document
>> http://example.com/sourcedoc.html . Therefore the target is a particular
>> snippet of that page and the author of that snippet is 'Vannevar Bush'.
>>
>> If that is the case, the JSON-LD in the wiki
>> "hasTarget": "http://example.com/sourcedoc.html"
>> is not accurate as it referring to the whole document.
>> It should be
>>
>>  "hasTarget": {
>>         "@type" : "SpecificResource",
>>        "hasSource": "http://example.com/sourcedoc.html"
>>         "hasSelector" : {
>>             .. the quote ..
>>         }
>>     }
>>
>>
>> Doug, do you want to keep track of the fact that the annotation target is
>> authored by Bush? Or annotating the quote in the target with an annotation
>> that says that Bush is the author?
>>
>> Paolo
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>> Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
http://www.paolociccarese.info/
Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
Member of the MGH Biomedical Informatics Core
+1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)

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