Re: OntoLex minutes 9/Apr/18

G'day,

here is a brief discussion of the structure of an Indonesian Lexicon:
the relevant point here is that most entries are based around a root,
which has a vague meaning and no POS, and then has senses, derived
words and compounds which will typically have a POS, definition and so
forth.

Here is a paper describing it: the structure is show on p517

https://elex.link/elex2017/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/paper31.pdf

Yours,


On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:00 PM, Julia Bosque Gil <jbosque@fi.upm.es> wrote:
> Hi, John, all:
>
> 14:00h CEST works fine for me, too.
>
> I'll take this opportunity to announce an update of the Lexicography page.
> Since spring is advancing and we mentioned that it would be nice to have a
> draft of the module by summer, if I am not mistaken, I figured that a brief
> summary of the content everyone provided in telcos, minutes and emails since
> end of 2017 would be useful to remind us where we are in terms of decisions
> concerning the module elements. You can find it at
>
> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Lexicography#Telcos_from_December_2017_to_May_2018
>
> I added a new figure at the end of that section to illustrate those
> decisions. If you just missed the last telcos, scroll down to the section
> March-April 2018 to catch up on the last discussion about DictionaryEntry
> vs. SuperEntries and details on where that discussion comes from:
>
> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Lexicography#March_--_April_2018
>
> Also, as the goal of the module was not formally written yet and there were
> questions and comments on it scattered through our minutes, I made a first
> attempt at drafting it from the content everyone has provided in the
> different channels since last summer. If you agree, we can polish it from
> here through the email thread :)
>
> Goal:
>
>> Model existing dictionaries in a lemon-OntoLex compliant way by providing
>> a conceptual/abstract model for lexicographical resources in general: build
>> a common space in which entities such as "entry", "dictionary sense", etc.
>> can be agreed and commonly defined. This will be done in a way in which we
>> abstract from specific linguistic views so that the new module remains
>> highly reuseable across dictionaries (independently of their lexicographic
>> tradition) as well as useful for new linked data-based ones.  By doing this,
>> we bridge the gap between OntoLex commitments to what 'entries' and 'senses'
>> are in other representations. In fact, we can consider this some kind of
>> "compatibility module" that allows us to deal with many existent resources.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps in giving a brief overview of the work in the module
> elements so far.
>
> Best regards and talk to you soon,
>
> Julia
>
>
> 2018-04-30 11:49 GMT+02:00 John McCrae <john@mccr.ae>:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just to clarify when this meeting will be today. I initially announced
>> 13:00 CEST, but it seems Philipp in his last mail changed this to 14:00
>> CEST, is this okay with everyone?
>>
>> Regards,
>> John
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 7:41 PM, Philipp Cimiano
>> <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>>  I have not heard any complaints, so I assume we will e-meet next Monday
>>> 30th of April at 14:00 CET.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Philipp.
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 23.04.18 um 11:59 schrieb Katrien Depuydt:
>>>
>>> Hi Philip,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 14:00 CET on the 30th is fine for me.
>>>
>>> As for the discussion on Dictionary Entry, I agree with you on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Katrien
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lic. Katrien Depuydt
>>> senior onderzoeker/taalkundige
>>>
>>> senior researcher/linguist
>>>
>>> +31 (0)71 527 2479 +31 (0)6 53627318 / kamer 104
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> /instituut voor de Nederlandse taal/
>>>
>>> Rapenburg 61 / 2311 GJ / Leiden
>>>
>>> Postbus 9515 / 2300 RA / Leiden
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.ivdnt.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Van: Philipp Cimiano [mailto:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de]
>>> Verzonden: donderdag 19 april 2018 8:29
>>> Aan: public-ontolex@w3.org
>>> Onderwerp: Re: OntoLex minutes 9/Apr/18
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dearl all,
>>>
>>>  thanks to John for the minutes and to Julia for the detailed response to
>>> Sander.
>>>
>>> Personally, I am not convinved about renaming "DictionaryEntry" to
>>> "SuperEntry". First "DictionaryEntry" says nothing about whether a
>>> dictionary is printed.
>>>
>>> According to WIkipedia: A dictionary, sometimes known as a wordbook, is a
>>> collection of words in one or more specific languages, often arranged
>>> alphabetically (or by radical and stroke for ideographic languages), which
>>> may include information on definitions, usage, etymologies, pronunciations,
>>> translation, etc.[1] or a book of words in one language with their
>>> equivalents in another, sometimes known as a lexicon.[1] It is a
>>> lexicographical product which shows inter-relationships among the data.[2]
>>>
>>>
>>> The relevant terms are: collection and most importantly to me
>>> "lexicographical product which shows inter-relationships among data". I
>>> quite like this. A dictionary is primarly a conscious and deliberate
>>> arrangement of lexical entries / words into collections, making
>>> lexicographic choices what to group, etc. The word "product" makes clear
>>> that a dictionary is an artifact that makes choices on how to present /
>>> group and describe language. It is a meta-object.
>>>
>>> The view of a dictionary as a lexicographic product which shows
>>> inter-relationships among the data is fine for our purposes. We could in
>>> fact even use this definition for our module. Under this definition it would
>>> be more than appropriate to call our object DictionaryEntry.
>>>
>>> I am fine with having one property describes with multiple (defined)
>>> ranges.
>>>
>>> Other than that, I would like to propose that we have our next telco on
>>> the 30th of April, if possible at 14:00 CET. Leet me know if this works out.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Philipp.
>>>
>>> Am 09.04.18 um 17:13 schrieb John McCrae:
>>>
>>> Hi Julia,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes that is certainly what I meant to say :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Julia Bosque Gil <jbosque@fi.upm.es>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just a minor clarification for a line in the minutes from today:
>>>
>>> 'SuperEntry' is a better name than 'LexicalEntry' -->  'SuperEntry' is a
>>> better name than 'DictionaryEntry'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Julia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2018-04-09 14:38 GMT+02:00 John McCrae <john.mccrae@insight-centre.org>:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The minutes from today are below:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Present: Julia, Francesca, Ilan, John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Lexicography
>>>
>>> Issues raised by Sander:
>>>
>>> JBG: Use of two properties describesEntry and describesSense, but
>>> dictionaries describe much more than entries and senses.
>>>
>>> JBG: Single describes property with multiple range?
>>>
>>> JBG:Is this sufficient to capture the structure of a dictionary
>>>
>>> JM: Probably sufficent, but some risk of not capturing all dictionaries
>>>
>>> One property with multiple ranges may be more flexible than multiple
>>> properties
>>>
>>> Technical distinction between ranges of 'describes' but is there a
>>> semantic distinction?
>>>
>>> JM: probably technically okay to have a single property
>>>
>>> JBG: SuperEntry of subEntry?
>>>
>>> JM: I think this is an error in my minutes. It should be SuperEntry
>>>
>>> FF: We aren't representing a digital version of a print dictionary, so is
>>> dictionary entry the right name?
>>>
>>> JBG: if a dictionary entry only has senses for nouns ontolex core is
>>> sufficient. however the dictionary has senses for multiple pos I must use
>>> DictionaryEntry. The use of dictionary entry implies the existence of a
>>> paper dictionary.
>>>
>>> JM: super entry is like an 'entry group' (as previously proposed) so
>>> perhaps SuperEntry is a better name
>>>
>>> FF: shows that lexical entries do not occur by themselves
>>>
>>> IK: what is meant by typographical? what is the purpose of lexicography
>>> module?
>>>
>>> aims is to represent linguistic information (JM: broadly true)
>>>
>>> JBG: yeah, some things are not linguistic, but somehow logical, e.g.,
>>> sense orderings
>>>
>>> JBG: In next telco we should repeat the goal of the module
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Key Points:
>>>
>>> 'describe' as a property with multiple ranges is acceptable
>>>
>>> 'SuperEntry' is a better name than 'LexicalEntry'
>>>
>>> goal of OntoLex is not same as TEI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IK: how this relates to dictionaries. What about senses, when many
>>> lexicographers (e.g., Kilgariff) reject them?
>>>
>>> JBG: we provide enough tools to represent dictionaries
>>>
>>> JM: OntoLex is quite opinionated as to what 'entries' and 'senses' mean,
>>> so we need to bridge this with other representations
>>>
>>> IK: Looking at future goals is important too. 'SuperEntry' is more
>>> forward-looking
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Next Telco:
>>>
>>> 23rd is difficult for some so postpone to 30 Apr, 13:00 CEST.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Julia Bosque Gil
>>> PhD Student
>>> Ontology Engineering Group
>>>
>>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>>
>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>>
>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>>
>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>>
>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249
>>>
>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560
>>>
>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>>
>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>>
>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>>
>>> Germany
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Aan dit bericht kunnen geen rechten worden ontleend.
>>> Het bericht is alleen bestemd voor de geadresseerde.
>>> Indien het bericht niet voor u is bestemd, verzoeken wij
>>> u dit aan ons te melden en het bericht te verwijderen.
>>>
>>> This message shall not constitute any obligations.
>>> This message is intended solely for the addressee.
>>> If you have received this message in error, please
>>> inform us and delete the message.
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano
>>> AG Semantic Computing
>>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC)
>>> Universität Bielefeld
>>>
>>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249
>>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560
>>> Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de
>>>
>>> Office CITEC-2.307
>>> Universitätsstr. 21-25
>>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW
>>> Germany
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Julia Bosque Gil
> PhD Student
> Ontology Engineering Group
> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid



-- 
Francis Bond <http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/fcbond/>
Division of Linguistics and Multilingual Studies
Nanyang Technological University

Received on Monday, 30 April 2018 13:35:12 UTC