Re: R: telco today at 15:00 (CET)

Dear Armando,

thanks for that.
See some comments between lines.

Best,
Elena.

El 17/05/2013 16:38, Armando Stellato escribió:
> Hi Elena,
>
> though I (think I) see the rationale behind it and thus understand the
> interest in the proposal, there is a number of contra which (in my humble
> opinion) would crash over the pros...
>
> 1) if our model has still to model wordnet, we still have to put that sense
> reification in between words and synsets, as <synset>s represent the <sense>
> of these <word>s (and this is the wordnet model's theory, and we cannot change it)
> 2) ...then you would have two senses, making a really complicate model...
I see what you mean. The thing is that I like to think of the 
LexicalSense class in terms of an "ad-hoc" bridge between the lexicon 
and the ontology, do you see what I mean?
This is why I would like to maintain that final part of the path "sense 
--reference--> ontology entity".

.... I think I have just understood were my confusion was... We always 
wanted to think of lemon as a model for modeling linguistic and lexical 
information, and the "sense" was always outside of our model. For that 
reason, we (or at least I) saw WordNet synsets as ontological entities. 
However, I see two problems now:

 1. I am not sure I understand the meaning of the Lexical Sense class
    between a Lexical Entry in lemon and the WordNet synset in a
    lemonized WordNet
 2. all of a sudden I do not see how to relate the lemonized wordnet to
    an ontology

Maybe you got there a long time ago, but I just arrived!!! :)
(I am goint to stop it here before I start saying nonesense... I need to 
think about it...)

> 3) your sense in between the bag of words and the ontreference, would be
> like saying "I'm using wordnet, but I don't commit to its synset
> agglomeration", and take only part of the words of a given synset. But
> wordnet is not much more than the organization of words; if you don't commit
> to it, then you don't get much from WordNet. If one is (re)using wordnet,
> they are implicitly committing to its synset organization (or may not commit
> to it in some cases, and those cases they would use bnodes instead of
> synsets, or simply use the shortcut from senses to ontrefs).
It is as if I say, from the synset agglomeration, which expresses the 
"meaning" of a lexical entry, for this specific ontology entity I take 
some part of it, yes, why not?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Armando
>
>
>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: Elena Montiel Ponsoda [mailto:elemontiel@gmail.com]
>> Inviato: venerdì 17 maggio 2013 15.45
>> A: public-ontolex@w3.org
>> Oggetto: Re: telco today at 15:00 (CET)
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> quick representation of the proposed path (not sure if it really makes
>> sense...)
>>
>> corn --ontolex:means-> wordnet:corn_n_xxx --ontolex:sense->
>> :corn_sense1 --ontolex:reference-> fao:Corn (a skos:Concept)
>>
>> A Lexical Entry (corn) has_Meaning WordNet Synset, and from the bag of
>> words in the Synset, one sense (sense 1) is selected/restricted and is the
> one
>> that points to the Ontology Entity
>>
>> In this way we would keep the "original" idea of the Lexical Sense of
> acting as
>> a bridge between the Sense and the Ontology Entity.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> elena
>>
>>
>> El 17/05/2013 9:14, Philipp Cimiano escribió:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>>    I propose we do a short telco today on use cases (IFLA,
>>> Eurosentiment, WordNet, ....) and discuss transition to working group.
>>>
>>> John and myself did not have the chance this week to work on a
>>> document summarizing discussions, but we will do next week or the week
>>> after latest.
>>>
>>> Access details can be found here:
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/wiki/Teleconference,_2013.17.05,_
>> 1
>>> 5-16_pm_CET
>>>
>>>
>>> Talk to you later,
>>>
>>> Philipp.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Elena Montiel-Ponsoda
>> Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>> Facultad de Informática
>> Campus de Montegancedo s/n
>> Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, España
>> www.oeg-upm.net
>> Tel. (+34) 91 336 36 70
>> Fax  (+34) 91 352 48 19
>

-- 
Elena Montiel-Ponsoda
Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
Facultad de Informática
Campus de Montegancedo s/n
Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, España
www.oeg-upm.net
Tel. (+34) 91 336 36 70
Fax  (+34) 91 352 48 19