AW: MusicXML 3.1 - ready for release?

May I give my 2 cents to the responses, too. 
According to the MusicXML spec (http://usermanuals.musicxml.com/MusicXML/MusicXML.htm#CT-MusicXML-pitch.htm) a decimal value for alter (<alter>-0.23</alter>) is defined for microtones ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtonal_music> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtonal_music). In case microtones are not implemented in the according programs an import will simply ignore this alter directive.
 
Reinhold
 
  _____  

Von: Jeremy Sawruk [mailto:jeremy.sawruk@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. August 2017 22:22
An: mogens@lundholm.org
Cc: public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org
Betreff: Re: MusicXML 3.1 - ready for release?


Thank you, I now understand your problem. I can only speak to the software which I developed. In that software, MusicXML import converts the file into the internal representation used by the software. Any information that is not supported by that software is ignored. MusicXML export then takes whatever information is stored in the internal representation and converted to MusicXML. You are correct in that your missing data is lost during the import process. I believe other notation software also works this way. 

I do not believe it is part of the MusicXML standard to specify that a MusicXML client must maintain an internal state that would preserve the imported MusicXML. MusicXML is (primarily) a transport mechanism; it allows files to be exchanged between different pieces of software. MusicXML does not specify whether a MusicXML client uses MusicXML beyond import/export.

I don't know how Finale handles time-only in verses, but you may want to file a bug/feature request with them to address the issue. I personally do not believe that this is a limitation of MusicXML, but rather a limitation of the MusicXML clients.

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 4:05 PM, mogens@lundholm.org <mogens@lundholm.org> wrote:


About notation programs preserving the MusicXML code (Answer to Jeremy Sawruk's question):


I did Test-1.xml that has a note D, lowered a little bit:

      <note default-x="159">
        <pitch>
          <step>D</step>
          <alter>-0.23</alter>
          <octave>4</octave>
        </pitch>
        <duration>1</duration>
        <voice>1</voice>
        <type>eighth</type>
        <accidental>flat-1</accidental>
        <stem default-y="-3">up</stem>
        <beam number="1">continue</beam>
      </note>


I imported Test-1.xml into Finale and saved it as Test-2.xml. Now the alter-value disappeared and the accidental changed to "natural". I also imported Test-1.xml to MuseScore and saved this as Test-3.xml. And both alter- and accidental-definition disappear. 
But I am not only thinking of single elements - also the whole structure is changed. If you compare Test-2.xml and
Test-3 (Finale and Musescore) you see a lot of differences. Even when you save from MusesScore some formatting 
is lost (again and again).
The reason is of cause that notation programs have their own formats and internal structure. And this internal structure is not linked to the MusicXML code. 

Hope this explains what I mean. 

For my part, I want to add lyric text,  that appears like writers use to write it: A repeated text (e.g. a refrain that is the same
in all verses) is only written once. To the text I therefore add the "time-only" attribute e.g. with a value "1, 2, 3, 4" - for all verses. 
But I use a notation program to write the music score. I can add this manually into the MusicXML-file, but if it disappears after every change done with the notation program?
  
Still the saved files are MusicXML. I just hope that notation programs in the future will provide means to write the lyrics using "time-only". 

PS: I could be wrong with these two examples - but the general problem exists. 


On 2017-08-31 20:18, Jeremy Sawruk wrote:


I'm sorry, but I personally am not clear on what MusicXML data is not being preserved. Could you please provide an example file?

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 2:02 PM, mogens@lundholm.org <mogens@lundholm.org> wrote:


I am sorry but I just didn't reach what I wanted to do with the testing of MusicXML 3.1. But I am working on it.

Using Finale to make new MusicXML-3.1-files seems to bring a common problem up again: Finale (and all other programs) does not preserve the MusicXML-data. In my case it concerns the time-only attribute for lyrics. 

To claim that notation programs should preserve MusicXML is not realistic and maybe not even desirably. But this means that some the improvements in 3.1 may never be implemented. 

My job now is to identify changes, that affects playing. Among these I shall identify those, that can be implemented in MIDI. But I do not believe this may cause new issues. 
   
I think that MusicXML 3.1 could be finalised, but hope there will come a MusicXML version 3.1.1 - if issues appear. It should not end up like MIDI - where they forgot a clef-definition and now, thirty years later, there is still no clef-definition. (as stated in the book "Beyond MIDI")

So go ahead with 3.1.

Regards
Mogens

PS: I am not using code generation from the XSD yet. Look forward to have "fun" with grace-cue-notes.



On 23 Aug 2017, at 16:11, Michael Good <mgood@makemusic.com> wrote: