- From: Yves Savourel <ysavourel@enlaso.com>
- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:05:43 -0700
- To: "'Phil Ritchie'" <philr@vistatec.ie>, "'David Lewis'" <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>
- CC: <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
I agree with Phil: it's sounds like a Harry Potter spell (and not a nice one). 'conformance' is fine, I asked about 'non-conformance' because that seemed more in-line with describing a problem. But either way is fine with me. -ys -----Original Message----- From: Phil Ritchie [mailto:philr@vistatec.ie] Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:45 PM To: David Lewis Cc: Dr. David Filip; Felix Sasaki; public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org Subject: Re: [Issue-63] New value for "Values for the Localization Quality Issue Type": "conformance" Re: [Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-02-25 and action for implementers / review dry run Sorry, will respond to this later today but I don't like "anomalous". Phil On 26 Feb 2013, at 23:24, "David Lewis" <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > Perhaps if we are inverting the meaning, then 'anomalous' might be a better name. Just a suggestion. > > Dave > > On 26 Feb 2013, at 13:39, "Dr. David Filip" <David.Filip@ul.ie> wrote: > > > All, I realize that Yves, had proposed inverting the value to > > non-conformance here > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html > > which I think makes lot of sense. > > So we indeed need Phil's input here for making the call for consensus. > > @Phil, will you have this addressed in your proposal by tomorrow in > > order to move forward to the call for consensus? > > Thanks > > dF > > > > Dr. David Filip > > ======================= > > LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS > > University of Limerick, Ireland > > telephone: +353-6120-2781 > > cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 > > facsimile: +353-6120-2734 > > mailto: david.filip@ul.ie > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Dr. David Filip <David.Filip@ul.ie> wrote: > >> Felix, thanks for the minutes. > >> Felix, Phil, I expected a call for consensus to accept the new > >> conformance type as proposed by Phil, but the minutes say that this > >> did not move forward because Phil was not present. > >> Do you want Phil to make the call for consensus? I thought all was > >> clear on this one, and we literally only wanted to see if anyone > >> eventually comes with a new material objection. > >> I think it is time to close this one.. Thanks and please let me > >> know how you want to proceed re this issue. > >> dF > >> > >> Dr. David Filip > >> ======================= > >> LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS > >> University of Limerick, Ireland > >> telephone: +353-6120-2781 > >> cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 > >> facsimile: +353-6120-2734 > >> mailto: david.filip@ul.ie > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote: > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> minutes are at > >>> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html > >>> and below as text. Two important action items: > >>> > >>> - please fill in the doodle poll for Luxembourg, see > >>> http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 > >>> - HTML implementers: have a look at > >>> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item04 > >>> and the discussion on defaults for HTML. The default > >>> implementation proposal > >>> at > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html > >>> may put some burden on implementers, see e.g. > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html > >>> before moving this forward we need to be sure that this is feasible. We will > >>> discuss the topic again on Wednesday. > >>> > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Felix > >>> > >>> > >>> - Felix > >>> > >>> > >>> [1]W3C > >>> > >>> [1] http://www.w3.org/ > >>> > >>> - DRAFT - > >>> > >>> MLW-LT WG > >>> > >>> 25 Feb 2013 > >>> > >>> [2]Agenda > >>> > >>> [2] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html > >>> > >>> See also: [3]IRC log > >>> > >>> [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-irc > >>> > >>> Attendees > >>> > >>> Present > >>> joerg, felix, kfritsche, Ankit, Des, Pedro, omstefanov, > >>> Jirka, Yves, shaunm, Marcis, pnietoca, leroy, mdelolmo, > >>> Giuseppe, Milan, tadej, davelewis > >>> > >>> Regrets > >>> christian, clemens, dom > >>> > >>> Chair > >>> felix > >>> > >>> Scribe > >>> shaunm > >>> > >>> Contents > >>> > >>> * [4]Topics > >>> 1. [5]agenda > >>> 2. [6]High level usage scenario doc publication > >>> 3. [7]HTML ITS default behaviour > >>> 4. [8]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt > >>> /track/issues/68 > >>> 5. [9]Conformance type > >>> 6. [10]XLIFF mapping > >>> 7. [11]Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS > >>> Ontology > >>> 8. [12]AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep > >>> * [13]Summary of Action Items > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> agenda > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0241.html > >>> > >>> [14] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html > >>> > >>> High level usage scenario doc publication > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [15]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use > >>> _cases_-_high_level_summary > >>> > >>> [15] > >>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> - having Christian editing the doc until next Monday > >>> - vote for publication 6 March call - publication 8 March > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> next monday = 4 march > >>> > >>> fsasaki: publishing march 8. last date before the workshop > >>> ... Please go through your use cases > >>> > >>> HTML ITS default behaviour > >>> > >>> Yves_: there is discrepancy in behavior between different data > >>> categories in HTML > >>> ... when an author marks up a document because of different > >>> behavior in different tools > >>> ... we don't specify things like the <b> element should be > >>> withinText > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> ITS 1.0 global rules are at > >>> [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml > >>> > >>> [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml > >>> > >>> Yves_: we could have a set of global rules for HTML that > >>> implementors must use > >>> ... if you don't implement global rules, this won't work. > >>> instead have default attributes > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> default implementation proposal at > >>> [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0235.html > >>> > >>> [17] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html > >>> > >>> Yves_: implementation of such defaults is probably difficult > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0243.html > >>> > >>> [18] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html > >>> > >>> Yves_: implementation is not a problem for okapi > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0205.html > >>> > >>> [19] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0205.html > >>> > >>> pnietoca: some MT systems hardcode translation of some > >>> attributes > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085 > >>> > >>> [20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085 > >>> > >>> Yves_: currently html translate affects attribute and > >>> its:translate does not > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [21]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories > >>> -defaults-etc > >>> > >>> [21] > >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories-defaults-etc > >>> > >>> kfritsche: in our implementation, we use non HTML specific > >>> defaults from the ITS spec, sec. 8.1 > >>> > >>> <Marcis> Will there be a list of defaults somewhere specified? > >>> We are currently adding Elements Within Text rules within HTML > >>> documents... > >>> > >>> pnietoca: we use global rules for translate, for instance. > >>> ... if some people don't use it, you have to hardcode which > >>> attributes to translate > >>> > >>> kfritsche: is this the proposal to change the default values in > >>> table 8.1? > >>> > >>> Yves_: proposal is to have in the html specification > >>> information on defaults > >>> > >>> fsasaki: or we could provide a global rules file > >>> ... I was proposing the defaults for people only doing its > >>> locally > >>> > >>> Yves_: there's a discrepancy between defaults and global rules > >>> because of overriding > >>> ... people who don't implement ITS globally just have to make > >>> sure the behavior with defaults matches what it would be with > >>> default values > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> shaun: issue of not knowing what you are overriding > >>> with local attributes - that is an issue with any format right? > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> yves: yes > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> shaun: who are the implementers who don't do global > >>> rules? > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [22]http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnl > >>> e/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html > >>> > >>> [22] > >>> http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> it seems everybody of the implementers currently on > >>> the table, do global rules > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> karl: new implementers might do local markup only - > >>> we should be aware of that > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> shaun: there is no implementation difficulty for me > >>> either way > >>> > >>> fsasaki: propose not to close this issue too fast > >>> ... other people not on the call might have different opinions > >>> > >>> Yves_: implementors could look at their implementations to see > >>> how difficult defaults versus global rules is > >>> > >>> fsasaki: give implementors time, come back to issue next > >>> wednesday > >>> > >>> <daveL> apologies for joining late > >>> > >>> [23]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issu > >>> es/ > >>> 68 > >>> > >>> [23] > >>> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/6 > >>> 8 > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> see draft + example files here > >>> [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html > >>> > >>> [24] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html > >>> > >>> tadej: no major contents changes. sent a draft to the mailing > >>> list > >>> ... we are dropping granularity levels, renaming to text > >>> analysis, clarified some > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at > >>> [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in > >>> [26]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01] > >>> > >>> [25] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html > >>> > >>> <trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Edit issue-68 proposal at > >>> [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [on Christian Lieske - > >>> due 2013-03-04]. > >>> > >>> [27] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip > >>> > >>> [28] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip > >>> > >>> omstefanov: all the file names in the test suite still refer to > >>> disambiguation > >>> > >>> tadej: should we rename all the files? > >>> > >>> leroy: yes, and move to directories named for the category > >>> > >>> Conformance type > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html > >>> > >>> [29] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html > >>> > >>> fsasaki: needs input from Phil. Phil not present today > >>> > >>> XLIFF mapping > >>> > >>> daveL: xliff round-trip examples for rome help use work through > >>> some issues > >>> ... we need separate discussions on how best to present that as > >>> best practices. don't spend time on that now. maybe in rome > >>> > >>> Yves_: while discussing terminology, we realized when you tag > >>> something in xliff, we don't have a way to mark it up with ITS > >>> in the original document > >>> > >>> <Marcis> A question: if we add mark-up to XLIFF, should we use > >>> the mrk or its:span annotation? > >>> > >>> daveL: in XLIFF we can add things after authoring time; don't > >>> have local markup for these in ITS > >>> > >>> <Yves_> to marcis: <mrk> (you can't have <its:span> in XLIFF) > >>> > >>> Yves_: you can add ITS attributes to <mrk>. some are redundant > >>> with XLIFF attributes > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [30]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLI > >>> FF_Mapping > >>> > >>> [30] > >>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF_Mapp > >>> ing > >>> > >>> daveL: three use cases: mapping from source format to XLIFF, > >>> mapping from XLIFF to target format, marking up XLIFF to be > >>> consumed in XLIFF in another process > >>> ... ideally have the same markup in all those cases, but might > >>> not be possible > >>> > >>> Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS Ontology > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html > >>> > >>> [31] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html > >>> > >>> fsasaki: don't require normalization in other technologies. > >>> propose to close issue > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [32]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i > >>> ssues/119 > >>> > >>> [32] > >>> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/1 > >>> 19 > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> > >>> [33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS > >>> -RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29 > >>> > >>> [33] > >>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS-RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29 > >>> > >>> daveL: expanded that out of example in NIF > >>> ... took a Relax NG schema and went through data categories to > >>> see which could be used in RDF and NIF > >>> ... appreciate feedback > >>> ... haven't figured out what we need to do with annotators ref. > >>> works out in provenance setting, but maybe not NIF > >>> ... problems where we've introduced idea that order has > >>> temporal relationship > >>> > >>> AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep > >>> > >>> <fsasaki> [34]http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 > >>> > >>> [34] http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 > >>> > >>> fsasaki: have a call to prepare for rome meeting. please fill > >>> in doodle poll > >>> > >>> Summary of Action Items > >>> > >>> [NEW] ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at > >>> [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- > >>> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in > >>> [36]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01] > >>> > >>> [35] > >>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html > >>> > >>> [End of minutes] > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>> Minutes formatted by David Booth's [37]scribe.perl version > >>> 1.137 ([38]CVS log) > >>> $Date: 2013-02-25 17:36:45 $ > >>> > >>> [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm > >>> [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ > > ************************************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2013 04:06:16 UTC