Re: MINUTES MLW-LT call 2012-07-26

Dear Pedro,

2012/7/27 Pedro L. Díez Orzas <pedro.diez@linguaserve.com>

> Thank you very much, Felix.****
>
> ** **
>
> Sorry, but yesterday I had a last minute meeting with a client and could
> not  attend the telco.****
>
> ** **
>
> I saw the minutes quickly and I only can contribute with this:****
>
> ** **
>
> Ontologies, knowledge (conceptual) bases, and semantic networks are in
> Ling. Tech. completely different (but related) resources. Since linguistic
> detonation of meanings is needed for disambiguation, in Ling. Tech it is
> usually preferred semantic network resources (Wordnet/ EuroWordnet type)
> for lexical disambiguation, while ontologies (except those of linguistic
> semantic primitives) and knowledge bases are rather for conceptual
> categorization, and individuation, identification and data linking. Of
> course, the last two can be also used differently for disambiguation as
> well. Thus, having accessible the three different type of information for
> disambiguation tasks can be very useful, via URIs to stable and appropriate
> on line resources.****
>
> ** **
>
> On the other hand, Felix, tell me if I can help you with the "Commentaries
> on ..." or "Best Practices".
>

Yes indeed. I have an action-184 to provide some ideas how to gather this
information. Stay tuned.

Best,

Felix



> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> Pedro****
>
> ** **
>
> *De:* Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> *Enviado el:* jueves, 26 de julio de 2012 18:46
> *Para:* public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> *Asunto:* MINUTES MLW-LT call 2012-07-26****
>
> ** **
>
> ... are at http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as
> text.****
>
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>
> Felix****
>
> ** **
>
>    [1]W3C****
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>       [1] http://www.w3.org/****
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> ** **
>
>                                - DRAFT -****
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> ** **
>
>                                MLW-LT WG****
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> ** **
>
> 26 Jul 2012****
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> ** **
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>    [2]Agenda****
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> ** **
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>       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0254.html****
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>    See also: [3]IRC log****
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>       [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-irc****
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> ** **
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> Attendees****
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> ** **
>
>    Present****
>
>           dave, felix, des, dom, olaf, sebastian, yves, raphael,****
>
>           guiseppe, leroy, pablo, jirka****
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> ** **
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>    Regrets****
>
>    Chair****
>
>           felix****
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> ** **
>
>    Scribe****
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>           daveL, fsasaki****
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> ** **
>
> Contents****
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> ** **
>
>      * [4]Topics****
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>          1. [5]named entity syntax discussion****
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>          2. [6]its 20 draft publication****
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>          3. [7]implementation committments****
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>          4. [8]call for consensus****
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>          5. [9]aob****
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>      * [10]Summary of Action Items****
>
>      __________________________________________________________****
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> ** **
>
> named entity syntax discussion****
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> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki>****
>
>    [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-****
>
>    lt/2012Jul/0280.html****
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> ** **
>
>      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0280.html****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> raphael and guiseppe introducing themselves and NERD****
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>    raphael: descibes NERD platform developed with giuseppeerizzo****
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>    <raphael> NERD: nerd.eurecom.fr****
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>    <raphael> s/nerd.eurecom.fr/[12]http://nerd.eurecom.fr/ <http://nerd.eurecom.fr/%5b12%5dhttp:/nerd.eurecom.fr/>****
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>      [12] http://nerd.eurecom.fr/****
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>    sebastien: introduces himself as member of LOD2 project and****
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>    developer of NIF and striving to make this compatible with****
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>    ITS2.0****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki>****
>
>    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-****
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>    lt/2012Jul/0280.html****
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> ** **
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>      [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0280.html****
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>
>    tadej: named entitiy dc call for concesus distirbuted****
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>    <raphael> NERD: a broker over numerous web APIs that perform****
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>    Named Entity extraction, offers an ontology, an API and a Web****
>
>    UI for performing experiments****
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> ** **
>
>    tadej: related to terminology but not an extension due to****
>
>    its1.0 backward compatibility option****
>
>    ... two use cases: type of named entity and which named entity****
>
>    being mentioned****
>
>    ... disambiguation uses similar pattern but is a separate use****
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>    case, pointing to a specific meaning in a semantic network****
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> ** **
>
>    <raphael> I would rather say that the disambiguation comes from****
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>    a semantic network, or a knowledge base or a dataset (e.g.****
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>    dbpedia) ... not an ontology since we are talking about****
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>    instances****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: examples included for XML, HTML, the latter with RDFa****
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>    lite.****
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>    ... microdata would be very similar****
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>    pablomendes: asks if term resource is confusing because of****
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>    different useages in language resource and web resources****
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>    community****
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>    <pablomendes> namespace or just "source"****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: could use 'named graph', but perhaps a bit obscure.****
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>    'name space' better but conflicts with xml namespace****
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>    ... suggestion from floor 'source ref' may be better****
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> ** **
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>    <Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask entityTypeResourceRef should****
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>    be a URI ... not a string, right?****
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>    raphael: for disambiguate use term 'knowledge base' rather than****
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>    'ontology'****
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>    ... resource ref is mistakenly a string rather than URI****
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>    tadej: yes its an error****
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>    <pablomendes> global = stand off?****
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>    tadej: also explains ITS pattern of local and global tag****
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>    methods****
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>    <pablomendes> local = inline?****
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>    fasaki: comparable to CSS and has equivalent of cascading rules****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> some background here about "global" and "local"****
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>    [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts****
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>    -selection****
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>      [14] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts-selection****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: also there is inherntence, e.g. to specify dbpedia as****
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>    source for all reference****
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> ** **
>
>    <pablomendes> wondering if "knowledge base", "thesaurus",****
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>    "ontology", "semantic network" couldn't all be subsumed by****
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>    "vocabulary"****
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> ** **
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>    <pablomendes> since the type of knowledge representation is not****
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>    important here. All those are essentially providers of URIs****
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>    (vocabularies of globally unique identifers)****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: also 3rd example mentions usage of rdfa lite so be****
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>    consistent with simple usage and standoff annotation****
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> ** **
>
>    <raphael> yes pablo, but for types disambiguation, we should****
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>    talk about vocabulary (ontology, thesaurus)****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: providing mapping between simple rdfa markup and ITS****
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>    markup****
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> ** **
>
>    <raphael> ... while for entities disambiguation, we should talk****
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>    about datasets****
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> ** **
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>    <raphael> e.g. dbpedia has 2 parts, the OWL ontology****
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>    (dbpedia-owl) and the dataset part (much larger)****
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> ** **
>
>    <pablomendes> another name clash, I guess. the Linked Data****
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>    community already took "vocabulary" as meaning schema****
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> ** **
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>    <raphael> pablo, we are talking about the same thing ... I use****
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>    vocabulary as in the Linked Data community****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: answer pablo question, knowledge based is preferable to****
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>    vocabulary****
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> ** **
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>    pablomendes: knowledge is probalby fine for this user****
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>    community, or perhaps entity vocabulary****
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> ** **
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>    <Sebastian> identifiers ?****
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> ** **
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>    <raphael> identifiers farm :-)****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: identifiers could work, with example of instance,****
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>    'ontologies' etc****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> link to terminology data category:****
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>    [15]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology****
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> ** **
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>      [15] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: responds to sebastian's question that neamed entity and****
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>    disambiguation are separate from terminology in the affermative****
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>    <Sebastian> [16]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog****
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>      [16] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog****
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> ** **
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>    <Sebastian>****
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>    [17]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Verb-2fr****
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> ** **
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>      [17] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Verb-2fr****
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> ** **
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>    Sebastian: is an issue since repositories such as wiktionary as****
>
>    like knowledge bases****
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> ** **
>
>    <raphael> Sebastian, there is a relationship between****
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>    [18]http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dog and****
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>    [19]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog ?****
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> ** **
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>      [18] http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dog****
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>      [19] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: disambiguation lets you specify that type - entity or****
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>    word****
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>    ... as there are difference between inserting terminology link****
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>    and entity link****
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> ** **
>
>    <Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what is the added value of****
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>    using the nerd type as value of the typeof attribute (in RDFa)****
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>    over the native type provided by an extractor****
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> ** **
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>    raphael: rdfa example query about different vocab are being****
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>    used****
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>    ... and which tool generated it****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: handled by separate data category****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> see that data category, textanalysis annotation,****
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>    listed here****
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>    [20]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp****
>
>    lementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2****
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> ** **
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>      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2****
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> ** **
>
>    <pablomendes> rephrase attempt: what are the relationships****
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>    between LexicalEntry instances from Wiktionary and entities in****
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>    DBpedia?****
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> ** **
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>    <pablomendes> perhaps lexvo:lexicalization?****
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> ** **
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>    <pablomendes>****
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>    [21]http://www.lexvo.org/page/term/eng/lexicalization****
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> ** **
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>      [21] http://www.lexvo.org/page/term/eng/lexicalization****
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>    <Sebastian>****
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>    [22]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Noun-1en****
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> ** **
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>      [22] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Noun-1en****
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> ** **
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>    Sebastien: responding to raphael, that in wiktionary the****
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>    separation between lexical entry and concept is not alway****
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>    clearly defined****
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>    ... might be a tool artefact that cause confusion****
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> ** **
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>    <raphael> [23]http://dbpedia.org/page/dog does not resolve BUT****
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>    [24]http://dbpedia.org/page/Dog does !****
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> ** **
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>      [23] http://dbpedia.org/page/dog****
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>      [24] http://dbpedia.org/page/Dog****
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> ** **
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>    Yves: title is not consistent - entity or name entity****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: an error, will fix this****
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> ** **
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>    Yves: example should be an entity pointer****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> FYI, "pointer" attribute means: pointing to existing****
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>    information in the document****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: will fix this****
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> ** **
>
>    raphael: what is relation between its draft and NIF****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: there is some overlap and will be addressed in future,****
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>    perhaps as a separate part or document****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/****
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> ** **
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>      [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/****
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> ** **
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>    Sebastian: we are considering document some roundtrip scenario****
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>    between ITS and NIF****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: some initial work undertaken****
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> ** **
>
>    <pablomendes> wrt. its:disambigType = (word | entity) can't the****
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>    distinction between word and entity be inferred from****
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>    entityTypeRef? e.g. wiktionary:doc is a word, dbpedia:Dog is an****
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>    entity****
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> ** **
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>    pablo: is disambig type redundant with entity type ref?****
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> ** **
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>    <Sebastian> no, it's meta-meta****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: this is possible, but unlcear how to maintain this****
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>    mapping and how users can infer this this****
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> ** **
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>    <Sebastian> I really hav to learn how this speaker queue things****
>
>    work, where can I RTFM ?****
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> ** **
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>    tadej: disambiguation use cases are often used in cases where****
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>    text is short and lacks context****
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>    ... and computational lingusitic community draw a clear****
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>    distinction ebtween lexical and conceptual meaning****
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> ** **
>
>    <Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what are the implementations****
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>    of "Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Version 1.0" and the****
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>    main diff between 1.0 and 2.0 ?****
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> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki>****
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>    [26]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i****
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>    ts20/its20.html#relation-to-its10****
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> ** **
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>      [26] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#relation-to-its10****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: there is a seciton describing difference, mainly html5****
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>    coverage and new daa categories****
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>    ... its1.0 focussed more on classic i18n and l10n, its2.0 bring****
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>    in more language technology integration****
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> ** **
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>    raphael; which tools implement its1.0****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> okapi [27]http://okapi.sourceforge.net/****
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> ** **
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>      [27] http://okapi.sourceforge.net/****
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> ** **
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>    yves: there is rainbow in okapi framework as well as****
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>    translation tools such as trados****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> trados translation tool****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> [28]http://okapi.opentag.com/****
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> ** **
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>      [28] http://okapi.opentag.com/****
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> ** **
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>    <Yves_>****
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>    [29]http://www.opentag.com/okapi/wiki/index.php?title=ITS****
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> ** **
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>      [29] http://www.opentag.com/okapi/wiki/index.php?title=ITS****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: thanks everyone****
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> ** **
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>    <pablomendes> thank you****
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> ** **
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in****
>
>    [30]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]****
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> ** **
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Integrate this feedback [on****
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>    Tadej Å tajner - due 2012-08-02].****
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> ** **
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>    <raphael>****
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>    [31]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its2req-20120524/#Automatic_en****
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>    richment_of_the_source_content_with_named_entity_annotations****
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> ** **
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>      [31] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its2req-20120524/#Automatic_enrichment_of_the_source_content_with_named_entity_annotations****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: aim to finalise entity related meta-data.****
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> ** **
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>    <Yves_> another real-life implementation:****
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>    [32]http://itstool.org/****
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> ** **
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>      [32] http://itstool.org/****
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> ** **
>
>    fsasaki: this link has lots of other requirements, but we aim****
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>    to keep things simple as possible to hit w3c timescale****
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>    including november feature freeze****
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> ** **
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>    <raphael> thanks all****
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> ** **
>
> its 20 draft publication****
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> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki>****
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>    [33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i****
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>    ts20/its20.html****
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> ** **
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>      [33] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: any objections to publication - there are none****
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> ** **
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>    <scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft****
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>    next week [recorded in****
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>    [34]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]****
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> ** **
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-182 - Publish update to working draft****
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>    next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: will plan another draft in latter half of august****
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> ** **
>
> implementation committments****
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> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki>****
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>    [35]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp****
>
>    lementation_Commitments****
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> ** **
>
>      [35] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments****
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> ** **
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>    fsaski: please keep implementation commmittments table uptodate****
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> ** **
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>    yves: will try very hard to implement disambiguation and named****
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>    entity data category****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki>****
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>    [36]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i****
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>    ts20/its20.odd****
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> ** **
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>      [36] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: tells tadej to continue working on word version and****
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>    then when finished editors will integrate into ITS draft doc****
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> ** **
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> call for consensus****
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> ** **
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>    fsasaki: any comment on parameter for rule and target points,****
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>    are there further comments****
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>    ... no disagreement****
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> ** **
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>    <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki****
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> ** **
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>    yves: domain, inheritance discussion****
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>    ... the discussion with declan****
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>    ... what is the outcome?****
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> ** **
>
>    dave: it was about the fact that in practice with statistical****
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>    MT****
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>    ... some domains will be more important than others****
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>    ... I was saying that the rules precedence is different than****
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>    the domain precendence declan was talking about****
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>    ... in statistical MT, you have sometimes domain precedence****
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> ** **
>
>    yves: my question was about the domain precedence attribute****
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> ** **
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>    felix: yves is asking about the impliciation for implementing****
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>    domain****
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> ** **
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>    dave: do we want to put this as a new optional attribute, e.g.****
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>    these are the ones that represent the primary domain****
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>    ... it is another optional attribute, need to get declan's****
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>    feedback what's best****
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>    ... in practice it will not be a definite instruction, not on****
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>    the side of MT providers****
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>    ... it is a hint, not a mechanical choice****
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> ** **
>
>    yves: looking at the example of domain rules****
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>    ... usage a) and b)****
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>    ... you have a domain precedence attribute and criminal law and****
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>    medical****
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>    ... you have a domain poitner that says where to get the****
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>    information****
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>    ... the precedence is in the rule****
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>    ... but how do you know which value to use****
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>    ... it is not listed in the domain****
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>    ... so what is the relationship****
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>    ... do we need a domain precedence pointer****
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> ** **
>
>    dave: not sure we really need it****
>
>    ... need feedback from declan****
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>    ... a separate MT provider may do other decisions****
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>    ... a company like adobe might use it****
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>    ... section doing the content, versus the one for MT training****
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>    ... looked whether it is actually needed - it's a borderline****
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>    use case****
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> ** **
>
>    yves: seems to be a border case****
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> ** **
>
>    dave: I agree****
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> ** **
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about****
>
>    domain new attribute proposal [recorded in****
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>    [37]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]****
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> ** **
>
>    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dave6****
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> ** **
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>    <scribe> ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and****
>
>    target pointer into the spec [recorded in****
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>    [38]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]****
>
> ** **
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Integrate parameters for rules****
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>    and target pointer into the spec [on Felix Sasaki - due****
>
>    2012-08-02].****
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> ** **
>
> aob****
>
> ** **
>
>    dave: we are adding more content explaining things****
>
>    ... we end up putting in descriptions of standoff markup that****
>
>    we are pointing to****
>
>    ... are we happy to put that in the document?****
>
> ** **
>
>    <daveL> scribe: daveL****
>
> ** **
>
>    fsasaki: responding to query on non normative standoff markup****
>
>    exmaples - we should definitely collect this and then decide****
>
>    how best ot present this****
>
> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki> [39]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/****
>
> ** **
>
>      [39] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/****
>
> ** **
>
>    fsasaki: next year we have more opportunity for separate best****
>
>    practice best practices as in ITS1.0****
>
>    ... and can take other things into account, such as use of meta****
>
>    data in more complex workflow scneairo****
>
> ** **
>
>    <Zakim> omstefanov, you wanted to discuss materials above and****
>
>    in additions to ITS 2.0****
>
> ** **
>
>    omstefanov: many other fields include commentaries on normative****
>
>    or legal content, including exmaples and implementation****
>
>    quesitons etc****
>
> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material****
>
>    [recorded in****
>
>    [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]****
>
> ** **
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Prepare a place for BP material****
>
>    [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].****
>
> ** **
>
>    <Zakim> Des, you wanted to discuss agenda for prague f2f****
>
> ** **
>
>    <Jirka> Logistics page is at****
>
>    [41]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Pra****
>
>    gueSep2012****
>
> ** **
>
>      [41] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012****
>
> ** **
>
>    <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague****
>
>    [recorded in****
>
>    [42]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]****
>
> ** **
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Prepare agenda draft for prague****
>
>    [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].****
>
> ** **
>
>    <omstefanov> Nevertheless, I want to make one more pitch to use****
>
>    the more globally understood term, "Commentaries on ..." rather****
>
>    than "Best Practices" which, even if what you says applies,****
>
>    Felix, usually is understood in a more restricted sense.****
>
> ** **
>
> Summary of Action Items****
>
> ** **
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about domain****
>
>    new attribute proposal [recorded in****
>
>    [43]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]****
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and****
>
>    target pointer into the spec [recorded in****
>
>    [44]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]****
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material****
>
>    [recorded in****
>
>    [45]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]****
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague****
>
>    [recorded in****
>
>    [46]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]****
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft next****
>
>    week [recorded in****
>
>    [47]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]****
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in****
>
>    [48]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]****
>
> ** **
>
>    [End of minutes]****
>
>      __________________________________________________________****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [49]scribe.perl version****
>
>     1.136 ([50]CVS log)****
>
>     $Date: 2012/07/26 16:44:03 $****
>
> ** **
>
>      [49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm****
>
>      [50] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/****
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Felix Sasaki
DFKI / W3C Fellow

Received on Friday, 27 July 2012 12:30:57 UTC