- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:30:18 +0200
- To: Pedro L. Díez Orzas <pedro.diez@linguaserve.com>
- Cc: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAL58czr4tNFMciqm4Thzidm96e47M9uX05b4S4AZD6bEJ1PN3w@mail.gmail.com>
Dear Pedro, 2012/7/27 Pedro L. DÃez Orzas <pedro.diez@linguaserve.com> > Thank you very much, Felix.**** > > ** ** > > Sorry, but yesterday I had a last minute meeting with a client and could > not attend the telco.**** > > ** ** > > I saw the minutes quickly and I only can contribute with this:**** > > ** ** > > Ontologies, knowledge (conceptual) bases, and semantic networks are in > Ling. Tech. completely different (but related) resources. Since linguistic > detonation of meanings is needed for disambiguation, in Ling. Tech it is > usually preferred semantic network resources (Wordnet/ EuroWordnet type) > for lexical disambiguation, while ontologies (except those of linguistic > semantic primitives) and knowledge bases are rather for conceptual > categorization, and individuation, identification and data linking. Of > course, the last two can be also used differently for disambiguation as > well. Thus, having accessible the three different type of information for > disambiguation tasks can be very useful, via URIs to stable and appropriate > on line resources.**** > > ** ** > > On the other hand, Felix, tell me if I can help you with the "Commentaries > on ..." or "Best Practices". > Yes indeed. I have an action-184 to provide some ideas how to gather this information. Stay tuned. Best, Felix > **** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > Pedro**** > > ** ** > > *De:* Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org] > *Enviado el:* jueves, 26 de julio de 2012 18:46 > *Para:* public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org > *Asunto:* MINUTES MLW-LT call 2012-07-26**** > > ** ** > > ... are at http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as > text.**** > > ** ** > > Felix**** > > ** ** > > [1]W3C**** > > ** ** > > [1] http://www.w3.org/**** > > ** ** > > - DRAFT -**** > > ** ** > > MLW-LT WG**** > > ** ** > > 26 Jul 2012**** > > ** ** > > [2]Agenda**** > > ** ** > > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0254.html**** > > ** ** > > See also: [3]IRC log**** > > ** ** > > [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-irc**** > > ** ** > > Attendees**** > > ** ** > > Present**** > > dave, felix, des, dom, olaf, sebastian, yves, raphael,**** > > guiseppe, leroy, pablo, jirka**** > > ** ** > > Regrets**** > > Chair**** > > felix**** > > ** ** > > Scribe**** > > daveL, fsasaki**** > > ** ** > > Contents**** > > ** ** > > * [4]Topics**** > > 1. [5]named entity syntax discussion**** > > 2. [6]its 20 draft publication**** > > 3. [7]implementation committments**** > > 4. [8]call for consensus**** > > 5. [9]aob**** > > * [10]Summary of Action Items**** > > __________________________________________________________**** > > ** ** > > named entity syntax discussion**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki>**** > > [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-**** > > lt/2012Jul/0280.html**** > > ** ** > > [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0280.html**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> raphael and guiseppe introducing themselves and NERD**** > > ** ** > > raphael: descibes NERD platform developed with giuseppeerizzo**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> NERD: nerd.eurecom.fr**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> s/nerd.eurecom.fr/[12]http://nerd.eurecom.fr/ <http://nerd.eurecom.fr/%5b12%5dhttp:/nerd.eurecom.fr/>**** > > ** ** > > [12] http://nerd.eurecom.fr/**** > > ** ** > > sebastien: introduces himself as member of LOD2 project and**** > > developer of NIF and striving to make this compatible with**** > > ITS2.0**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki>**** > > [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-**** > > lt/2012Jul/0280.html**** > > ** ** > > [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0280.html**** > > ** ** > > tadej: named entitiy dc call for concesus distirbuted**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> NERD: a broker over numerous web APIs that perform**** > > Named Entity extraction, offers an ontology, an API and a Web**** > > UI for performing experiments**** > > ** ** > > tadej: related to terminology but not an extension due to**** > > its1.0 backward compatibility option**** > > ... two use cases: type of named entity and which named entity**** > > being mentioned**** > > ... disambiguation uses similar pattern but is a separate use**** > > case, pointing to a specific meaning in a semantic network**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> I would rather say that the disambiguation comes from**** > > a semantic network, or a knowledge base or a dataset (e.g.**** > > dbpedia) ... not an ontology since we are talking about**** > > instances**** > > ** ** > > tadej: examples included for XML, HTML, the latter with RDFa**** > > lite.**** > > ... microdata would be very similar**** > > ** ** > > pablomendes: asks if term resource is confusing because of**** > > different useages in language resource and web resources**** > > community**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> namespace or just "source"**** > > ** ** > > tadej: could use 'named graph', but perhaps a bit obscure.**** > > 'name space' better but conflicts with xml namespace**** > > ... suggestion from floor 'source ref' may be better**** > > ** ** > > <Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask entityTypeResourceRef should**** > > be a URI ... not a string, right?**** > > ** ** > > raphael: for disambiguate use term 'knowledge base' rather than**** > > 'ontology'**** > > ... resource ref is mistakenly a string rather than URI**** > > ** ** > > tadej: yes its an error**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> global = stand off?**** > > ** ** > > tadej: also explains ITS pattern of local and global tag**** > > methods**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> local = inline?**** > > ** ** > > fasaki: comparable to CSS and has equivalent of cascading rules**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> some background here about "global" and "local"**** > > [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts**** > > -selection**** > > ** ** > > [14] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts-selection**** > > ** ** > > tadej: also there is inherntence, e.g. to specify dbpedia as**** > > source for all reference**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> wondering if "knowledge base", "thesaurus",**** > > "ontology", "semantic network" couldn't all be subsumed by**** > > "vocabulary"**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> since the type of knowledge representation is not**** > > important here. All those are essentially providers of URIs**** > > (vocabularies of globally unique identifers)**** > > ** ** > > tadej: also 3rd example mentions usage of rdfa lite so be**** > > consistent with simple usage and standoff annotation**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> yes pablo, but for types disambiguation, we should**** > > talk about vocabulary (ontology, thesaurus)**** > > ** ** > > tadej: providing mapping between simple rdfa markup and ITS**** > > markup**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> ... while for entities disambiguation, we should talk**** > > about datasets**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> e.g. dbpedia has 2 parts, the OWL ontology**** > > (dbpedia-owl) and the dataset part (much larger)**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> another name clash, I guess. the Linked Data**** > > community already took "vocabulary" as meaning schema**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> pablo, we are talking about the same thing ... I use**** > > vocabulary as in the Linked Data community**** > > ** ** > > tadej: answer pablo question, knowledge based is preferable to**** > > vocabulary**** > > ** ** > > pablomendes: knowledge is probalby fine for this user**** > > community, or perhaps entity vocabulary**** > > ** ** > > <Sebastian> identifiers ?**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> identifiers farm :-)**** > > ** ** > > tadej: identifiers could work, with example of instance,**** > > 'ontologies' etc**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> link to terminology data category:**** > > [15]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology**** > > ** ** > > [15] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology**** > > ** ** > > tadej: responds to sebastian's question that neamed entity and**** > > disambiguation are separate from terminology in the affermative**** > > ** ** > > <Sebastian> [16]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog**** > > ** ** > > [16] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog**** > > ** ** > > <Sebastian>**** > > [17]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Verb-2fr**** > > ** ** > > [17] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Verb-2fr**** > > ** ** > > Sebastian: is an issue since repositories such as wiktionary as**** > > like knowledge bases**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> Sebastian, there is a relationship between**** > > [18]http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dog and**** > > [19]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog ?**** > > ** ** > > [18] http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dog**** > > [19] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog**** > > ** ** > > tadej: disambiguation lets you specify that type - entity or**** > > word**** > > ... as there are difference between inserting terminology link**** > > and entity link**** > > ** ** > > <Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what is the added value of**** > > using the nerd type as value of the typeof attribute (in RDFa)**** > > over the native type provided by an extractor**** > > ** ** > > raphael: rdfa example query about different vocab are being**** > > used**** > > ... and which tool generated it**** > > ** ** > > tadej: handled by separate data category**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> see that data category, textanalysis annotation,**** > > listed here**** > > [20]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp**** > > lementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2**** > > ** ** > > [20] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> rephrase attempt: what are the relationships**** > > between LexicalEntry instances from Wiktionary and entities in**** > > DBpedia?**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> perhaps lexvo:lexicalization?**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes>**** > > [21]http://www.lexvo.org/page/term/eng/lexicalization**** > > ** ** > > [21] http://www.lexvo.org/page/term/eng/lexicalization**** > > ** ** > > <Sebastian>**** > > [22]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Noun-1en**** > > ** ** > > [22] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Noun-1en**** > > ** ** > > Sebastien: responding to raphael, that in wiktionary the**** > > separation between lexical entry and concept is not alway**** > > clearly defined**** > > ... might be a tool artefact that cause confusion**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> [23]http://dbpedia.org/page/dog does not resolve BUT**** > > [24]http://dbpedia.org/page/Dog does !**** > > ** ** > > [23] http://dbpedia.org/page/dog**** > > [24] http://dbpedia.org/page/Dog**** > > ** ** > > Yves: title is not consistent - entity or name entity**** > > ** ** > > tadej: an error, will fix this**** > > ** ** > > Yves: example should be an entity pointer**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> FYI, "pointer" attribute means: pointing to existing**** > > information in the document**** > > ** ** > > tadej: will fix this**** > > ** ** > > raphael: what is relation between its draft and NIF**** > > ** ** > > tadej: there is some overlap and will be addressed in future,**** > > perhaps as a separate part or document**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/**** > > ** ** > > [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/**** > > ** ** > > Sebastian: we are considering document some roundtrip scenario**** > > between ITS and NIF**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: some initial work undertaken**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> wrt. its:disambigType = (word | entity) can't the**** > > distinction between word and entity be inferred from**** > > entityTypeRef? e.g. wiktionary:doc is a word, dbpedia:Dog is an**** > > entity**** > > ** ** > > pablo: is disambig type redundant with entity type ref?**** > > ** ** > > <Sebastian> no, it's meta-meta**** > > ** ** > > tadej: this is possible, but unlcear how to maintain this**** > > mapping and how users can infer this this**** > > ** ** > > <Sebastian> I really hav to learn how this speaker queue things**** > > work, where can I RTFM ?**** > > ** ** > > tadej: disambiguation use cases are often used in cases where**** > > text is short and lacks context**** > > ... and computational lingusitic community draw a clear**** > > distinction ebtween lexical and conceptual meaning**** > > ** ** > > <Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what are the implementations**** > > of "Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Version 1.0" and the**** > > main diff between 1.0 and 2.0 ?**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki>**** > > [26]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i**** > > ts20/its20.html#relation-to-its10**** > > ** ** > > [26] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#relation-to-its10**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: there is a seciton describing difference, mainly html5**** > > coverage and new daa categories**** > > ... its1.0 focussed more on classic i18n and l10n, its2.0 bring**** > > in more language technology integration**** > > ** ** > > raphael; which tools implement its1.0**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> okapi [27]http://okapi.sourceforge.net/**** > > ** ** > > [27] http://okapi.sourceforge.net/**** > > ** ** > > yves: there is rainbow in okapi framework as well as**** > > translation tools such as trados**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> trados translation tool**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> [28]http://okapi.opentag.com/**** > > ** ** > > [28] http://okapi.opentag.com/**** > > ** ** > > <Yves_>**** > > [29]http://www.opentag.com/okapi/wiki/index.php?title=ITS**** > > ** ** > > [29] http://www.opentag.com/okapi/wiki/index.php?title=ITS**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: thanks everyone**** > > ** ** > > <pablomendes> thank you**** > > ** ** > > <scribe> ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in**** > > [30]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]**** > > ** ** > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Integrate this feedback [on**** > > Tadej Å tajner - due 2012-08-02].**** > > ** ** > > <raphael>**** > > [31]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its2req-20120524/#Automatic_en**** > > richment_of_the_source_content_with_named_entity_annotations**** > > ** ** > > [31] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its2req-20120524/#Automatic_enrichment_of_the_source_content_with_named_entity_annotations**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: aim to finalise entity related meta-data.**** > > ** ** > > <Yves_> another real-life implementation:**** > > [32]http://itstool.org/**** > > ** ** > > [32] http://itstool.org/**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: this link has lots of other requirements, but we aim**** > > to keep things simple as possible to hit w3c timescale**** > > including november feature freeze**** > > ** ** > > <raphael> thanks all**** > > ** ** > > its 20 draft publication**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki>**** > > [33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i**** > > ts20/its20.html**** > > ** ** > > [33] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: any objections to publication - there are none**** > > ** ** > > <scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft**** > > next week [recorded in**** > > [34]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]**** > > ** ** > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-182 - Publish update to working draft**** > > next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: will plan another draft in latter half of august**** > > ** ** > > implementation committments**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki>**** > > [35]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp**** > > lementation_Commitments**** > > ** ** > > [35] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments**** > > ** ** > > fsaski: please keep implementation commmittments table uptodate**** > > ** ** > > yves: will try very hard to implement disambiguation and named**** > > entity data category**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki>**** > > [36]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i**** > > ts20/its20.odd**** > > ** ** > > [36] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: tells tadej to continue working on word version and**** > > then when finished editors will integrate into ITS draft doc**** > > ** ** > > call for consensus**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: any comment on parameter for rule and target points,**** > > are there further comments**** > > ... no disagreement**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki**** > > ** ** > > yves: domain, inheritance discussion**** > > ... the discussion with declan**** > > ... what is the outcome?**** > > ** ** > > dave: it was about the fact that in practice with statistical**** > > MT**** > > ... some domains will be more important than others**** > > ... I was saying that the rules precedence is different than**** > > the domain precendence declan was talking about**** > > ... in statistical MT, you have sometimes domain precedence**** > > ** ** > > yves: my question was about the domain precedence attribute**** > > ** ** > > felix: yves is asking about the impliciation for implementing**** > > domain**** > > ** ** > > dave: do we want to put this as a new optional attribute, e.g.**** > > these are the ones that represent the primary domain**** > > ... it is another optional attribute, need to get declan's**** > > feedback what's best**** > > ... in practice it will not be a definite instruction, not on**** > > the side of MT providers**** > > ... it is a hint, not a mechanical choice**** > > ** ** > > yves: looking at the example of domain rules**** > > ... usage a) and b)**** > > ... you have a domain precedence attribute and criminal law and**** > > medical**** > > ... you have a domain poitner that says where to get the**** > > information**** > > ... the precedence is in the rule**** > > ... but how do you know which value to use**** > > ... it is not listed in the domain**** > > ... so what is the relationship**** > > ... do we need a domain precedence pointer**** > > ** ** > > dave: not sure we really need it**** > > ... need feedback from declan**** > > ... a separate MT provider may do other decisions**** > > ... a company like adobe might use it**** > > ... section doing the content, versus the one for MT training**** > > ... looked whether it is actually needed - it's a borderline**** > > use case**** > > ** ** > > yves: seems to be a border case**** > > ** ** > > dave: I agree**** > > ** ** > > <scribe> ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about**** > > domain new attribute proposal [recorded in**** > > [37]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]**** > > ** ** > > <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dave6**** > > ** ** > > <scribe> ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and**** > > target pointer into the spec [recorded in**** > > [38]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]**** > > ** ** > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Integrate parameters for rules**** > > and target pointer into the spec [on Felix Sasaki - due**** > > 2012-08-02].**** > > ** ** > > aob**** > > ** ** > > dave: we are adding more content explaining things**** > > ... we end up putting in descriptions of standoff markup that**** > > we are pointing to**** > > ... are we happy to put that in the document?**** > > ** ** > > <daveL> scribe: daveL**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: responding to query on non normative standoff markup**** > > exmaples - we should definitely collect this and then decide**** > > how best ot present this**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> [39]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/**** > > ** ** > > [39] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/**** > > ** ** > > fsasaki: next year we have more opportunity for separate best**** > > practice best practices as in ITS1.0**** > > ... and can take other things into account, such as use of meta**** > > data in more complex workflow scneairo**** > > ** ** > > <Zakim> omstefanov, you wanted to discuss materials above and**** > > in additions to ITS 2.0**** > > ** ** > > omstefanov: many other fields include commentaries on normative**** > > or legal content, including exmaples and implementation**** > > quesitons etc**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material**** > > [recorded in**** > > [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]**** > > ** ** > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Prepare a place for BP material**** > > [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].**** > > ** ** > > <Zakim> Des, you wanted to discuss agenda for prague f2f**** > > ** ** > > <Jirka> Logistics page is at**** > > [41]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Pra**** > > gueSep2012**** > > ** ** > > [41] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012**** > > ** ** > > <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague**** > > [recorded in**** > > [42]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]**** > > ** ** > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Prepare agenda draft for prague**** > > [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].**** > > ** ** > > <omstefanov> Nevertheless, I want to make one more pitch to use**** > > the more globally understood term, "Commentaries on ..." rather**** > > than "Best Practices" which, even if what you says applies,**** > > Felix, usually is understood in a more restricted sense.**** > > ** ** > > Summary of Action Items**** > > ** ** > > [NEW] ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about domain**** > > new attribute proposal [recorded in**** > > [43]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]**** > > [NEW] ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and**** > > target pointer into the spec [recorded in**** > > [44]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]**** > > [NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material**** > > [recorded in**** > > [45]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]**** > > [NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague**** > > [recorded in**** > > [46]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]**** > > [NEW] ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft next**** > > week [recorded in**** > > [47]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]**** > > [NEW] ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in**** > > [48]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]**** > > ** ** > > [End of minutes]**** > > __________________________________________________________**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's [49]scribe.perl version**** > > 1.136 ([50]CVS log)**** > > $Date: 2012/07/26 16:44:03 $**** > > ** ** > > [49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm**** > > [50] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/**** > > ** ** > -- Felix Sasaki DFKI / W3C Fellow
Received on Friday, 27 July 2012 12:30:57 UTC