- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:45:49 +0200
- To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAL58czp6EHut4Xy5qw9-gJUCYsv-rJg8m-8aukR+2_YDP=x2Ng@mail.gmail.com>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as
text.
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
MLW-LT WG
26 Jul 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0254.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-irc
Attendees
Present
dave, felix, des, dom, olaf, sebastian, yves, raphael,
guiseppe, leroy, pablo, jirka
Regrets
Chair
felix
Scribe
daveL, fsasaki
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]named entity syntax discussion
2. [6]its 20 draft publication
3. [7]implementation committments
4. [8]call for consensus
5. [9]aob
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
named entity syntax discussion
<fsasaki>
[11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0280.html
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0280.html
<fsasaki> raphael and guiseppe introducing themselves and NERD
raphael: descibes NERD platform developed with giuseppeerizzo
<raphael> NERD: nerd.eurecom.fr
<raphael> s/nerd.eurecom.fr/[12]http://nerd.eurecom.fr/
[12] http://nerd.eurecom.fr/
sebastien: introduces himself as member of LOD2 project and
developer of NIF and striving to make this compatible with
ITS2.0
<fsasaki>
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Jul/0280.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jul/0280.html
tadej: named entitiy dc call for concesus distirbuted
<raphael> NERD: a broker over numerous web APIs that perform
Named Entity extraction, offers an ontology, an API and a Web
UI for performing experiments
tadej: related to terminology but not an extension due to
its1.0 backward compatibility option
... two use cases: type of named entity and which named entity
being mentioned
... disambiguation uses similar pattern but is a separate use
case, pointing to a specific meaning in a semantic network
<raphael> I would rather say that the disambiguation comes from
a semantic network, or a knowledge base or a dataset (e.g.
dbpedia) ... not an ontology since we are talking about
instances
tadej: examples included for XML, HTML, the latter with RDFa
lite.
... microdata would be very similar
pablomendes: asks if term resource is confusing because of
different useages in language resource and web resources
community
<pablomendes> namespace or just "source"
tadej: could use 'named graph', but perhaps a bit obscure.
'name space' better but conflicts with xml namespace
... suggestion from floor 'source ref' may be better
<Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask entityTypeResourceRef should
be a URI ... not a string, right?
raphael: for disambiguate use term 'knowledge base' rather than
'ontology'
... resource ref is mistakenly a string rather than URI
tadej: yes its an error
<pablomendes> global = stand off?
tadej: also explains ITS pattern of local and global tag
methods
<pablomendes> local = inline?
fasaki: comparable to CSS and has equivalent of cascading rules
<fsasaki> some background here about "global" and "local"
[14]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts
-selection
[14] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#basic-concepts-selection
tadej: also there is inherntence, e.g. to specify dbpedia as
source for all reference
<pablomendes> wondering if "knowledge base", "thesaurus",
"ontology", "semantic network" couldn't all be subsumed by
"vocabulary"
<pablomendes> since the type of knowledge representation is not
important here. All those are essentially providers of URIs
(vocabularies of globally unique identifers)
tadej: also 3rd example mentions usage of rdfa lite so be
consistent with simple usage and standoff annotation
<raphael> yes pablo, but for types disambiguation, we should
talk about vocabulary (ontology, thesaurus)
tadej: providing mapping between simple rdfa markup and ITS
markup
<raphael> ... while for entities disambiguation, we should talk
about datasets
<raphael> e.g. dbpedia has 2 parts, the OWL ontology
(dbpedia-owl) and the dataset part (much larger)
<pablomendes> another name clash, I guess. the Linked Data
community already took "vocabulary" as meaning schema
<raphael> pablo, we are talking about the same thing ... I use
vocabulary as in the Linked Data community
tadej: answer pablo question, knowledge based is preferable to
vocabulary
pablomendes: knowledge is probalby fine for this user
community, or perhaps entity vocabulary
<Sebastian> identifiers ?
<raphael> identifiers farm :-)
tadej: identifiers could work, with example of instance,
'ontologies' etc
<fsasaki> link to terminology data category:
[15]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology
[15] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#terminology
tadej: responds to sebastian's question that neamed entity and
disambiguation are separate from terminology in the affermative
<Sebastian> [16]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog
[16] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog
<Sebastian>
[17]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Verb-2fr
[17] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Verb-2fr
Sebastian: is an issue since repositories such as wiktionary as
like knowledge bases
<raphael> Sebastian, there is a relationship between
[18]http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dog and
[19]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog ?
[18] http://dbpedia.org/resource/Dog
[19] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/resource/dog
tadej: disambiguation lets you specify that type - entity or
word
... as there are difference between inserting terminology link
and entity link
<Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what is the added value of
using the nerd type as value of the typeof attribute (in RDFa)
over the native type provided by an extractor
raphael: rdfa example query about different vocab are being
used
... and which tool generated it
tadej: handled by separate data category
<fsasaki> see that data category, textanalysis annotation,
listed here
[20]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp
lementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2
[20] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments#Data_categories_2
<pablomendes> rephrase attempt: what are the relationships
between LexicalEntry instances from Wiktionary and entities in
DBpedia?
<pablomendes> perhaps lexvo:lexicalization?
<pablomendes>
[21]http://www.lexvo.org/page/term/eng/lexicalization
[21] http://www.lexvo.org/page/term/eng/lexicalization
<Sebastian>
[22]http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Noun-1en
[22] http://wiktionary.dbpedia.org/page/dog-English-Noun-1en
Sebastien: responding to raphael, that in wiktionary the
separation between lexical entry and concept is not alway
clearly defined
... might be a tool artefact that cause confusion
<raphael> [23]http://dbpedia.org/page/dog does not resolve BUT
[24]http://dbpedia.org/page/Dog does !
[23] http://dbpedia.org/page/dog
[24] http://dbpedia.org/page/Dog
Yves: title is not consistent - entity or name entity
tadej: an error, will fix this
Yves: example should be an entity pointer
<fsasaki> FYI, "pointer" attribute means: pointing to existing
information in the document
tadej: will fix this
raphael: what is relation between its draft and NIF
tadej: there is some overlap and will be addressed in future,
perhaps as a separate part or document
<fsasaki> [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/
[25] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/
Sebastian: we are considering document some roundtrip scenario
between ITS and NIF
fsasaki: some initial work undertaken
<pablomendes> wrt. its:disambigType = (word | entity) can't the
distinction between word and entity be inferred from
entityTypeRef? e.g. wiktionary:doc is a word, dbpedia:Dog is an
entity
pablo: is disambig type redundant with entity type ref?
<Sebastian> no, it's meta-meta
tadej: this is possible, but unlcear how to maintain this
mapping and how users can infer this this
<Sebastian> I really hav to learn how this speaker queue things
work, where can I RTFM ?
tadej: disambiguation use cases are often used in cases where
text is short and lacks context
... and computational lingusitic community draw a clear
distinction ebtween lexical and conceptual meaning
<Zakim> raphael, you wanted to ask what are the implementations
of "Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Version 1.0" and the
main diff between 1.0 and 2.0 ?
<fsasaki>
[26]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
ts20/its20.html#relation-to-its10
[26] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#relation-to-its10
fsasaki: there is a seciton describing difference, mainly html5
coverage and new daa categories
... its1.0 focussed more on classic i18n and l10n, its2.0 bring
in more language technology integration
raphael; which tools implement its1.0
<fsasaki> okapi [27]http://okapi.sourceforge.net/
[27] http://okapi.sourceforge.net/
yves: there is rainbow in okapi framework as well as
translation tools such as trados
<fsasaki> trados translation tool
<fsasaki> [28]http://okapi.opentag.com/
[28] http://okapi.opentag.com/
<Yves_>
[29]http://www.opentag.com/okapi/wiki/index.php?title=ITS
[29] http://www.opentag.com/okapi/wiki/index.php?title=ITS
fsasaki: thanks everyone
<pablomendes> thank you
<scribe> ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Integrate this feedback [on
Tadej Štajner - due 2012-08-02].
<raphael>
[31]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its2req-20120524/#Automatic_en
richment_of_the_source_content_with_named_entity_annotations
[31] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its2req-20120524/#Automatic_enrichment_of_the_source_content_with_named_entity_annotations
fsasaki: aim to finalise entity related meta-data.
<Yves_> another real-life implementation:
[32]http://itstool.org/
[32] http://itstool.org/
fsasaki: this link has lots of other requirements, but we aim
to keep things simple as possible to hit w3c timescale
including november feature freeze
<raphael> thanks all
its 20 draft publication
<fsasaki>
[33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
ts20/its20.html
[33] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html
fsasaki: any objections to publication - there are none
<scribe> ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft
next week [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-182 - Publish update to working draft
next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
fsasaki: will plan another draft in latter half of august
implementation committments
<fsasaki>
[35]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Imp
lementation_Commitments
[35] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments
fsaski: please keep implementation commmittments table uptodate
yves: will try very hard to implement disambiguation and named
entity data category
<fsasaki>
[36]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
ts20/its20.odd
[36] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd
fsasaki: tells tadej to continue working on word version and
then when finished editors will integrate into ITS draft doc
call for consensus
fsasaki: any comment on parameter for rule and target points,
are there further comments
... no disagreement
<fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
yves: domain, inheritance discussion
... the discussion with declan
... what is the outcome?
dave: it was about the fact that in practice with statistical
MT
... some domains will be more important than others
... I was saying that the rules precedence is different than
the domain precendence declan was talking about
... in statistical MT, you have sometimes domain precedence
yves: my question was about the domain precedence attribute
felix: yves is asking about the impliciation for implementing
domain
dave: do we want to put this as a new optional attribute, e.g.
these are the ones that represent the primary domain
... it is another optional attribute, need to get declan's
feedback what's best
... in practice it will not be a definite instruction, not on
the side of MT providers
... it is a hint, not a mechanical choice
yves: looking at the example of domain rules
... usage a) and b)
... you have a domain precedence attribute and criminal law and
medical
... you have a domain poitner that says where to get the
information
... the precedence is in the rule
... but how do you know which value to use
... it is not listed in the domain
... so what is the relationship
... do we need a domain precedence pointer
dave: not sure we really need it
... need feedback from declan
... a separate MT provider may do other decisions
... a company like adobe might use it
... section doing the content, versus the one for MT training
... looked whether it is actually needed - it's a borderline
use case
yves: seems to be a border case
dave: I agree
<scribe> ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about
domain new attribute proposal [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dave6
<scribe> ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and
target pointer into the spec [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Integrate parameters for rules
and target pointer into the spec [on Felix Sasaki - due
2012-08-02].
aob
dave: we are adding more content explaining things
... we end up putting in descriptions of standoff markup that
we are pointing to
... are we happy to put that in the document?
<daveL> scribe: daveL
fsasaki: responding to query on non normative standoff markup
exmaples - we should definitely collect this and then decide
how best ot present this
<fsasaki> [39]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/
[39] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/
fsasaki: next year we have more opportunity for separate best
practice best practices as in ITS1.0
... and can take other things into account, such as use of meta
data in more complex workflow scneairo
<Zakim> omstefanov, you wanted to discuss materials above and
in additions to ITS 2.0
omstefanov: many other fields include commentaries on normative
or legal content, including exmaples and implementation
quesitons etc
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material
[recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Prepare a place for BP material
[on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
<Zakim> Des, you wanted to discuss agenda for prague f2f
<Jirka> Logistics page is at
[41]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Pra
gueSep2012
[41] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012
<fsasaki> ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Prepare agenda draft for prague
[on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-02].
<omstefanov> Nevertheless, I want to make one more pitch to use
the more globally understood term, "Commentaries on ..." rather
than "Best Practices" which, even if what you says applies,
Felix, usually is understood in a more restricted sense.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: dave6 to contact declan and thomas about domain
new attribute proposal [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to integrate parameters for rules and
target pointer into the spec [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare a place for BP material
[recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to prepare agenda draft for prague
[recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: fsasaki to publish update to working draft next
week [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: tadej to integrate this feedback [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 26 July 2012 16:46:19 UTC